Does This Make Sense

[Rivverrat]

The text below comes from this sight   http://anglersresource.net/StaticLoadTutorial.aspx
 I'm not really understanding how laying a rod flat, pointing the tip at the fish is the most powerful position for a rod while fighting a fish.
Am I missing something or not understanding whats being said here....Jeff



      The absolute peak power position is a rod pointed straight at the fish, which virtually takes the rod out of the equation and allows the angler to simply "pull" the fish in.  This position is almost never used, though flycasters fighting giant Tarpon get very close to this position because it exerts so much power on the fish. Obviously, few mistakes can be made when the rod's shock absorbing characteristics are removed from the equation, the important thing to remember is that a low rod pointed at a fish is a very powerful position.

In this position, guide placement is actually not very critical due to the straight nature of the pull. Once you understand this principal, you can also begin to see that it is possible for the angler to CHOOSE the section of rod he wants to apply in a fight. How? By noting how much of the tip section is straight. The straight section performs no work and bears no pressure so, in effect the rod becomes shorter and the power used moves down and into the stronger mid-section of the rod.  

[sdlehr]

I'm not really understanding how laying a rod flat, pointing the tip at the fish is the most powerful position for a rod ....or not understanding whats being said here....Jeff

I believe the latter. What he is saying is that if you ever really needed to overpower a fish, take the rod (and guides) out of the equation and winch the fish with the rod pointed at the fish. There won't be any shock-absorption, so the line will be prone to snap more easily, but this is the way to place the most tension on the line (and hence, fish). He isn't saying one should do this very often. I think you are over-thinking this rather simple concept.

Sid

[Ron Jones]

I really just don't know about this one. I've used the rod to lift fish through the water my whole life. I've also stopped fish from running by lifting the rod to the point the fish can't run anymore. If I have the fish locked in with the rod up and point it straight at him, that fish will run until the line runs out or he gets tired. I know that meat lines (hand lines) can bring in the bigger fish, but I don't agree that with a line and reel, taking the rod out of the equation is the strongest position. I guess if every fish was caught with an International 80, then maybe this would be the case.
Ron

[Rivverrat]

I'm not really understanding how laying a rod flat, pointing the tip at the fish is the most powerful position for a rod ....or not understanding whats being said here....Jeff

I think you are over-thinking this rather simple concept.


Sid

Sid, I've been known to do that. I mean, overthink simple stuff.....I think your assumption is  or might be correct....Jeff

[Rivverrat]

Ron, your expressing exactly my prior thoughts that lead to my posting this....Jeff

[MarkT]

Japanese flat fall rods are to impart action to the jig, but once hooked up, you point the rod at the fish and let the reel's drag fight the fish.

[Donnyboat]

winch the fish in with the rod then wind, if you point the rod at the fish, and wind your placeing maximum stress on the reel gearing, hence parts wareing faster, cheers Don.

[Bryan Young]

I met a guy Fromm San Francisco that fished in this manner. I cannot remember his name but he was well known and respected. He would pull straight then Reel.   He said that sometimes this needs to be done because it's easier to fight the fish in this manner.

[Rivverrat]

Japanese flat fall rods are to impart action to the jig, but once hooked up, you point the rod at the fish and let the reel's drag fight the fish.

Mark, I understand the extreme ultra light jig fishing. However their reason for using the reel vs the rod with a fish on is because those rods could break.

It's not helping me understand how my pulling on a bent rod against a pulling fish is not as strong as laying the rod flat & allowing the fish to pull.

[Rivverrat]

This begs the question....If you held on to the line from a rod & reel with drag set at say 20 lbs. & took off running
Which would be harder ?

To run while some one held the rod flat or rod held at 45 degrees.

[day0ne]

Japanese flat fall rods are to impart action to the jig, but once hooked up, you point the rod at the fish and let the reel's drag fight the fish.

Mark, I understand the extreme ultra light jig fishing. However their reason for using the reel vs the rod with a fish on is because those rods could break.

It's not helping me understand how my pulling on a bent rod against a pulling fish is not as strong as laying the rod flat & allowing the fish to pull.

You don't allow the fish to pull, you pull the fish, then reel. It is a very effective way to fight a fish, especially with spectra, and very easy on the angler. Watch Kil Song fight a large fish sometime. He uses this technique a lot. In this manner, you aren't fighting the rod, which can be very tiring, especially with a long rod. Try it sometime, you will be surprised. BTW, I don't know of anybody that uses this technique that just winches the fish, but I guess you could.

[Jeri]

Hi All,

We use the flat or horizontal rod system - which locally is called 'straight stick', when we hook up big sharks from the beach on long rods - it is a very effective system for dealing with very powerful fish. The value of taking the rod out of the equation and then to fight the fish/shark straight off the drag of the reel, means that much less effort is exerted by the angler on a pwoerful running fish.

Once the fish/shark tires, then the rod is raised to fight in a more conventional manner. There are occassions when because of the leverage factors of using the long surf rods, we might hold the rod horizontal with max drag and walk back up the beach, just to get a heavy fish/shark moving towards the beach, then walk back to the front of the beach with the rod at 45 degrees, winding the gained line, once the fish is moving more frequently towards the beach, then conventional tactics resume.

It is a great way to resolve the stalemate situation we get with very heavy beasts, that you just can't put enough pressure on with the rod in a more vertical orientation.

As a rod builder, the principle the author is trying to get across, is that only the 'un-bent' part of a rod blank is doing any real work - what folks mistakenly call 'the backbone'.

Hope that helps,

Cheers from sunny Africa

Jeri

[Cor]

Sometimes there is merit in doing this but I think it really depends on circumstances.
I've done that on few occasions when overpowered by a Yellowfin Tuna, but its not intended to "winch the fish in" but more a defensive strategy when the fish wants so go underneath the boat and you can not walk around for some reason and you feel you are going to get cut off.    It's sometimes also a way for the angler to "rest" for a minute or two as you remove the leverage that works against the angler from the equasion.


•   I fish from a small boat, 19ft with 2 or 3 people.
•   You need to be close to the water to be able to stick the rod tip deep in the water to keep the line away from the hull.
•   We also always fish underpowered.   With 80lb tackle I would probably not do that.

[Rivverrat]

OK....Im picking up what's being put down a bit better now. I guess I've done this while using a fly rod for gar. They dart around & sometimes jump out the water. I've an easier time controlling the drag with a flat rod.
Jeri, your explaining the use of this technique with a surf rod makes complete sense. Thanks, Jeff

[Jeri]

Hi Jeff,

My pleasure.

Sometimes we are really troubled by using a common language, and getting a point across accurately - without pictures.   

Cheers from sunny Africa

Jeri