Penn 720z Debacle

[foakes]

Maybe its my imagination...but it seems like the reel cranks a little smoother now.

That is why drag washers are made out of nylon, delrin, asbestos, etc. -- and not metal against metal, Mike.

There is a very slight resistance -- even when greased -- with the plastic block.  Not noticeable -- unless you are very aware of the mechanics of a properly working reel...as you are.

Best,

Fred

[mizmo67]

Yay! Ready to catch some nice fish!

[Midway Tommy]

Maybe its my imagination...but it seems like the reel cranks a little smoother now.

That is why drag washers are made out of nylon, delrin, asbestos, etc. -- and not metal against metal, Mike.

There is a very slight resistance -- even when greased -- with the plastic block.  Not noticeable -- unless you are very aware of the mechanics of a properly working reel...as you are.

Best,

Fred

It will eventually become a little more noisy with metal against metal and you'll get a little more noticeable wear on the shaft and main gear. Besides cost, noise is why a lot of the manufacturer's backed away from all metal drive parts. Plus they created a link that would wear or break under stress before extensive damage was done.   

[mizmo67]

So if someone came up with a 3D printer version in a poly material it would be better in the long run?

[Gfish]

Isit just me, or are we pretty forgiving, when it comes to certain brand name fishing reels that are MOSTLY(but not 100 o/o) "overbuilt". Would there really be a dramatic cost/benifit ratio increase in using aluminium main gears vs. brass/bronze for Penn? I would think so, if they can still have sales steady, or increasing, based probably on a reputation of past engineering quality.
Then again, in the larger scope of things, whata ya gonna do? Companies gotta do what they can to remain competitive and, even to exist. I'm certainly glad Penn still exists , albeit, as part of a conglomerate. My 2 cents
Gfish

[oc1]

Yes, we are probably too forgiving when it comes to Penn.  If something is screwed up they should be called out on it.  I would prefer phosphor bronze over plastic and would prefer plastic over aluminum.  The way it deteriorated, that part may have been made of ABS.  UHMWPE would have been a better choice.
-steve

[foakes]

Unfortunately --

Design, sleekness, competitive price points, labor costs, and good looks -- all work together to define and drive the materials and engineering that go into any product.  

Reels are no exception.

How many old school reels from the 50's through the 70's -- with oscillating gear/spool shaft arms, ever fail?

Personally, I have only had one oscillation arm system fail after working on thousands of these old quality spinners.  This was a soft metal connecting block at the rear inside of a 265 Microlite with hardened beeswax grease inside.

These include Abu/Zebco Cardinals, DAM Quicks, various quality Penns, Alcedos, and many others.

When Daiwa came along with softer gears, less drive train parts -- and a sharper looking reel -- they took a big bite out of the world-wide market share.  In those days, their labor and manufacturing costs were much less also.

Many reels came out to compete with this emerging new market of sharper looking and sleeker reels with metallic colors.  In order to keep designs competitive -- plastics were used extensively.  Drag knobs, connecting blocks, bail trip mechanisms, spools, etc...

To the point that we have in many cases -- more plastic parts in modern reels than metal.

Oscillation blocks made of plastic have always been a weak link in these 720's, many larger Mitchells, and many other reels.

As long as parts are available -- it is never a problem.  However, that is another issue...

These failures have allowed me to buy many 720's and Mitchell's pretty cheaply over the years -- so I am grateful...

Just my opinions.

Best,

Fred

[George6308]

Just an idea: would the spray on Teflon coating for cookware give the aluminum cross wind block some added lubrication where it comes in contact with the main drive gear ?
Even the area on the main gear where the block rubs could also be coated.

[mo65]

It will eventually become a little more noisy with metal against metal and you'll get a little more noticeable wear on the shaft and main gear. Besides cost, noise is why a lot of the manufacturer's backed away from all metal drive parts. Plus they created a link that would wear or break under stress before extensive damage was done.   

   It's been my experience that metal against metal always gets smoother and less noisy with use.(properly lubed of coarse) With this in mind...examine the new yellow grease on that new main gear in the earlier photo. That blackening reminds me of polishing aluminum with Brasso. That very well may be the source of my newfound "smoothness". Who knows? I do agree about the plastic parts used to save major damage. The nylon gear in a levelwind is a prime example...it's saved many a finger.

   

[oc1]

This is drifting way, way off topic but there was a time when I was responsible for a bunch of floating paddlewheel pond aerators.  
https://nanrongshanghai.en.ec21.com/Nanrong_Modernized_Paddle_Wheel_Aerator--3534081_9521303.html
A gear box turned one inch stainless steel shafts and the shafts were supported horizontally by a plastic bearing block.  Running 24/7 for a few years the shaft would wear down where it was supported by and rubbing on the plastic block and the shaft would eventually brake in half at that spot.  The plastic block would hardly be worn at all and you could go through several shafts before the plastic bearing block had to be replaced.  Go figure.
-steve

[Midway Tommy]

It will eventually become a little more noisy with metal against metal and you'll get a little more noticeable wear on the shaft and main gear. Besides cost, noise is why a lot of the manufacturer's backed away from all metal drive parts. Plus they created a link that would wear or break under stress before extensive damage was done.   

   It's been my experience that metal against metal always gets smoother and less noisy with use.(properly lubed of coarse) With this in mind...examine the new yellow grease on that new main gear in the earlier photo. That blackening reminds me of polishing aluminum with Brasso. That very well may be the source of my newfound "smoothness". Who knows? I do agree about the plastic parts used to save major damage. The nylon gear in a levelwind is a prime example...it's saved many a finger.

   

Maintenance and lubrication are key to keeping metal against metal smooth and quite. Without it metal filings begin, ridges and grooves appear, sloppiness develops and noise becomes noticeable. Like you said, Mike, lubrication is the key. Too bad a good number of fishermen fail in that regard.    

[mo65]

Lubrication is the key. Too bad a good number of fishermen fail in that regard.    

   Indeed...and I have the hardest time imagining not keeping up maintenance...because my "training" was for 25 years my each and every work day started by oiling the presses. It's burned into my head, moving parts need lubrication.

[Gfish]

Good points fishin gents, plastic stragically located, can save some physical & mechanical damage and used reels are avalible to us at a pretty good price, 'cause some plastic/nylon/crappy metal part broke and the original owner couldn't or wouldn't fix it.
Now-a-days, I got at least one back-up for all the reel classes I use. Not so, years ago, when I had less money. And what about discontinued garbage parts that break on you? Buy another reel if you love fishin it?
For me it's not alota fun to order new parts(if avalible), probably 'cause I'm such a novice at it. Ah well, gonna keep workin it, 'till I get it down...
Gfish

[flytrooper]

i made  the crosswind  block  for a friend who wanted to beef up  his reel he said plastic one break therefore  he ask me to make it out of alunimum    plus  you cant  find  the plastic one any more

[foakes]

Welcome aboard, FT —

Show us a photo of your crosswind block, if possible.

This is about all these 720 reels ever needed.

The problem with plastic, or nylon — yes, it does wear and break — but fairly often after 20 or 40 years of non-use, stored in the cold and heat — it just fails on its own sometimes by just disassembling and touching it.

And then there is what I call the "cold crank"...dried grease after 20 years, guy tries to crank the handle — won't move much — he tries harder until the brittle with age crosswind block just breaks in half.  Just like trying to start an old engine without knowledge, new lubrication, and proper preparation.  More damage is done in the first few seconds — then 100,000 miles of previous use.

Scott's has a machinist who make these A/M aluminum blocks for them.  Are you the fellow who does this?

Best,

Fred