Penn Main Gear Talk

[mo65]

  This post will help folks identify their gear types, and hopefully give some tips to save trouble when delving into gears for the first time. I learned about gears by quizzing members here and piecing many threads together. To have it all in one thread would be awesome...so I'll make an attempt.
  Most all Penn gears come in these variants I'll cover, but for simplicity I'll use all #5-60 photos. Since I don't have a stash of gears to photograph, I used eBay pics, many are products that members here are selling. This first version is probably the most common...the bronze gear. It meshes smoother than steel, but isn't as strong.

 

  Next up is the bare steel version. Many times the bare steel gear is in so fine a condition you wonder why some gears were ever plated.

 

  Ahh...the chromium plated version...sporting it's usual flaking. This damage is only cosmetic though, I've had severely chipped or corroded finish that performed as well as NOS.

 

  Here is the Moly coated gear, easily identified by its satin grey finish. This is my preferred stock Penn gear type.

 

  This is a "bushed" gear, which also comes in a steel version with a brass or bronze bushing.

 

  This photo shows the different back cuts used on these gear through the years. Surprisingly, the hard fiber spacers used with the larger cutout won't fit into the smaller cutout...something to watch if you're using OEM undergear spacers.

 

  Here's my preferred undercut...none! I like these type because the back's surface can be polished for using a steel washer/carbontex washer undergear set.

 

  Well...that gets things started...hopefully the members will chime in with other tidbits of knowledge. Questions are welcomed, I may even have a few questions myself.

[Bill B]

Thanks Mo...that's a lot of information packed into a small package....Bill

[Bryan Young]

And there were a limited number of stainless steel gears for the Anniversary specials for the 113H. Not sure about the 114H and 500S though.

[mo65]

And there were a limited number of stainless steel gears for the Anniversary specials for the 113H. Not sure about the 114H and 500S though.

  I'd say a stainless steel gear could have been made for the 500s or maybe even other models. I have a 210 with a #5-500 gear that really looks like stainless.

 

[Bryan Young]

Mo has it all covered.  

[TongassFisher]

Mo,

Awesome! You helped me identify 5-60 gears and what to look for a few weeks back. This post with pictures helps tremendously as well.

Thanks for posting.

[sdlehr]

Thanks for posting, Mo. Great info.
Sid

[mo65]

   Many times us tinkerers and hobbyists don't have the tools on hand the pro service folks use...no big deal...we can improvise...like this gizmo I fashioned to polish the inside of gears. Drag stacks are much like the braking system on your car, the smoother the brake discs the better the braking. Many times when installing new drag washers the old washers are stuck to the gear...creating lots of power robbing debris. Getting the inside of that gear clean and smooth will yield the best results. My gear polisher is the essence of simplicity...you ready fer this Dominick?   It's a wine cork! With a piece of 1500 grit taped on.   Don't forget to polish the metal drag washers too, they are more important than the gear, being as only the first drag washer is affected by the condition inside the gear. With all drag surfaces slick and smooth you'll get the most power from your setup.

[Rancanfish]

Another good idea Mo!

For drag washers I use the Sal method....lay a sheet of smooth sandpaper down flat and push the washer around a bit while pressing down with a couple of Italian sausage digits.

[mo65]

  You may have noticed in my posts I use Bryan's under gear set often to make a 4-stack drag setup.
It's a great way to grab a few more usable pounds of drag without over stressing a reel with stock framework. I've even used it in a 113H with a 5-stack for 6 friction surfaces. The first pic shows 2 types of stock Penn under gear washers above Bryan's stainless steel/carbontex set. Sometimes this under gear set will push out the main gear a few thousandths causing rub on the side plate. The reason for this is the stock Penn undergear washer is .032-.034 and Bryan's set is .040...each washer contributing .020. I know 8 thousandths  doesn't sound like much...but it's tight inside that gear housing. The second pic shows how similar the two systems are in thickness. The third pic shows how the gear housing is "terraced". These are the areas the main gear, the drag washers, and the spring washer all fit into. Any one or all could be scraping if the main gear is pushed out a bit. It's easy to identify where the rub is...now you need to remove a little material. I do mean a little...just skim off a shave. I'll say it now...if you don't have a Dremel tool...get one. The fourth pic shows the type bit I use. Sometimes just removing the spring washer will take care of the rub. If you don't like the feel of the drag with it removed...just move it to between the spacer and the star.

P.S. I forgot to mention shimming the gear sleeve will also sometimes contribute to side plate/gear rubbing, as it moves the gear out in the same way. No sweat though, skimming a few thousandths off the side plate is worth the reward of a solid feeling handle and more usable power.

[Alto Mare]

Some might say the washer for under the gear should perform as a bearing, not adding drag. this gives the best performance. Clutch assembly should not be combined with that washer for under the gear.

Removing a Belleville or a wavy washer ( both spring washers) from the top of the drag stack will create a possibility for the star to back up on its own when you don't want it to.

Of course you set your reels as you like, this is just my opinion and also what I do on my personal reels.

Sal

[sdlehr]

Clutch assembly should not be combined with that washer for under the gear.

Sorry, could you elaborate just a little?

Removing a Belleville or a wavy washer ( both spring washers) from the top of the drag stack will create a possibility for the star to back up on its own when you don't want it to.

I agree with this, but I think what Mike was saying was that if you have a spring washer under the spacer sleeve, and it's causing rubbing on the side plate/gear housing (I don't think I've encountered this), you can move the spring washer to on top of the spacer sleeve/below the star to eliminate the rubbing.... by shortening the stack inside the gear housing.... and this will also prevent the star from backing off when you don't want it to because it's maintaining pressure on the star.

Sid

[Alto Mare]

Clutch assembly should not be combined with that washer for under the gear.

Sorry, could you elaborate just a little?

Removing a Belleville or a wavy washer ( both spring washers) from the top of the drag stack will create a possibility for the star to back up on its own when you don't want it to.

I agree with this, but I think what Mike was saying was that if you have a spring washer under the spacer sleeve, and it's causing rubbing on the side plate/gear housing (I don't think I've encountered this), you can move the spring washer to on top of the spacer sleeve/below the star to eliminate the rubbing.... by shortening the stack inside the gear housing.... and this will also prevent the star from backing off when you don't want it to because it's maintaining pressure on the star.

Sid

drag stack shouldn't have the same functionality as the washer for under the gear, you would want that washer to hep the main gear spinn as smooth as possible when under tension. installing a carbon washer there would defeat the purpose, you want that washer to be as slippery as possible.

On your second comment, I read it differently than you did, yes Mo is correct on that one.

About the washers, I have a bunch, if you have some as well try measuring one at a time, you'll be surprised in the variations.
I have 3 different piles, ranging from 1mm to 1.20mm. Metal washers also come in various thickness.
if you have rubbing issues, at times choosing the thinner washers helps.

[basto]

Hi Mo
With regard to your first photo, how can a keyed washer fit on the gear sleeve under the gear when the sleeve is round at this area?
Forgive me if I am understanding this incorrectly.
Basto

[mhc]

Hi Greg, Alan T had some '2nd generation' gear sleeves made with the flat extended to the bottom of the sleeve to accommodate the under gear keyed washer. http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=13041.0

Mike