Penn Main Gear Talk

[RowdyW]

I've got four 5-113 main gears that were milled through between the gear teeth. __it happens.           Rudy

[oc1]

I thought they tried to mill the notch where it would cut through.  If they center the milling at the base of the tooth, the tooth is only supported by a thread on both sides.
-steve

[sdlehr]

I thought they tried to mill the notch where it would cut through.  If they center the milling at the base of the tooth, the tooth is only supported by a thread on both sides.
-steve

x2, I think they purposely oriented the gears that way for this reason.

Sid

[RowdyW]

Then why aren't all the same gears done the same way?

[sdlehr]

Then why aren't all the same gears done the same way?

You got me there. Have you ever seen a gear drilled through a tooth like Steve was talking about above? Me neither. Did they not make them or did they not pass QC, or something else I'm not thinking of? If it was random orientation when they milled out the little ears some, maybe many, would be rejects...  not the way Otto Henze did things. That leaves us with the logical conclusion (I think) that the gears were hand-positioned so as not to mill out a piece centered on a tooth. Pretty sure they didn't have CNC machines back then, so there would be some variability, but I imagine the gear-makers got pretty good at not producing rejects. I don't know any of this to be true, I'm guessing based on what I know.

Sid

[mo65]

   I've been noticing lately folks are having a harder time finding #5-500 steel gears for their Jigmaster and 112H Senator projects. Decent prices have become scarce on eBay. When I first joined this site, a fellow could ask if anyone had one, and before he could even finish his sentence 4 or 5 guys would offer him one. Not seeing as much of that these days either.
   One solution is to not forget the other reels that use that main gear. The good ol' 309 uses a #5-500 main, and they can still be found on the cheap, especially at flea markets, pawn shops, and yard sales. Look for the older maroon plated models for a good chance at steel.
   Another solution...and this is my preferred solution...is to just buy a new stainless steel gear set. Pro Challenger's JM500X kit has everything you'll need for $70. By the time you buy a donor reel, a drag washer kit, and an under gear washer, you'll probably have that much invested anyway. 

[mizmo67]

   I've been noticing lately folks are having a harder time finding #5-500 steel gears for their Jigmaster and 112H Senator projects. Decent prices have become scarce on eBay. When I first joined this site, a fellow could ask if anyone had one, and before he could even finish his sentence 4 or 5 guys would offer him one. Not seeing as much of that these days either.
   One solution is to not forget the other reels that use that main gear. The good ol' 309 uses a #5-500 main, and they can still be found on the cheap, especially at flea markets, pawn shops, and yard sales. Look for the older maroon plated models for a good chance at steel.
   Another solution...and this is my preferred solution...is to just buy a new stainless steel gear set. Pro Challenger's JM500X kit has everything you'll need for $70. By the time you buy a donor reel, a drag washer kit, and an under gear washer, you'll probably have that much invested anyway. 

Yes, now you'd be looking at the custom SS gears...the old Penn ones are few and far between.

[mo65]

   Here's another gear issue I've seen pop up a few times lately. Folks adding aftermarket drag kits with many thin washers need to watch out for this gremlin. Some stock Penn gears only had the slots for the eared washers cut deep enough to accommodate those thick washers used at that time. Then when you try inserting thinner washers, that first eared washer stops where the slot stops, and doesn't even touch the carbontex washer below it!
   Most times it isn't even noticed until the user slaps the reel back together only to find the drag power suffering miserably. Of course the slots could be milled deeper, but for the average Joe an easier fix is to just use a few thicker washers first in the stack. This raises things up to where the first eared washer doesn't bottom out in the slots.
   Here's a photo of a gear with the shallow slots. I have a 6/0 like this, but didn't want to tear it down to take a pic, so I used Tiddlerbasher's photo, I hope that's OK.

[Tiddlerbasher]

Been there done that - I think I recognize that photo Mo

[mo65]

  Gear noise and growl are issues we've all probably dealt with at some point and time. Naturally, the first place ya look is the gear, but as this photo demonstrates, other components in the drivetrain can be the cause. Although this gear sleeve is the only one I've encountered with such extreme wear, I can see this happening pretty easily. The damage that looks like a deeper cut in the sleeve is where the gear rides. With a steel gear riding on that sleeve dry...or a hard run by a lunker...the sleeve is going to take the wear. The little 180 this worn sleeve was in growled like a grizzly bear, and when replaced it quieted right down, felt normal and smooth. Just more gear food for thought.

[sdlehr]

So do you think the growling was really a chattering of the gear around the sleeve that it no longer fit well? I can see that kind of wear causing a problem if the gear were turning on the sleeve, but with the drag locked down, there shouldn't be any movement there - except for what can now occur because of the wear on the sleeve...?? Trying to understand how this type of wear ends up translating into a "growl".

[scrinch]

So do you think the growling was really a chattering of the gear around the sleeve that it no longer fit well? I can see that kind of wear causing a problem if the gear were turning on the sleeve, but with the drag locked down, there shouldn't be any movement there - except for what can now occur because of the wear on the sleeve...?? Trying to understand how this type of wear ends up translating into a "growl".

Possibly the offset of the main gear due to the wear on the sleeve resulted in a poor mesh with the pinion gear.

[Gfish]

Possibly the offset of the main gear due to the wear on the sleeve resulted in a poor mesh with the pinion gear.
[/quote]
Yeah, that sounds probable.

Another issue: corrosion on the underside of the main gear. Got my first vintage steel 5-500 pretty bad. So far, I've only noticed it on gears with the red-fiber, stock, under-the-gear washers only. Does anyone lube that area, and if so what with? Could there be a better washer or set up under there, to mitigate this?

Like to think that flater it is on the underside of the gear the smoother the gear'll spin and the better the drag function.
Gfish

[mo65]

So do you think the growling was really a chattering of the gear around the sleeve that it no longer fit well? 

Possibly the offset of the main gear due to the wear on the sleeve resulted in a poor mesh with the pinion gear.

   Exactly...this kind of wear throws out the main/pinion mesh...she'll howl like a dog! You can feel every tooth when you turn the handle.

Another issue: corrosion on the underside of the main gear. Got my first vintage steel 5-500 pretty bad. So far, I've only noticed it on gears with the red-fiber, stock, under-the-gear washers only. Does anyone lube that area, and if so what with? Could there be a better washer or set up under there, to mitigate this?

Like to think that flater it is on the underside of the gear the smoother the gear'll spin and the better the drag function.
Gfish

   This issue is common too Gfish. What's going on under that gear when in drag can definitely be felt. That corrosion between the main gear and the under gear washer has to go. Earlier in this thread I showed how I use a wine cork with sandpaper attached to smooth the inside and the backside. Those red fiber washers work well if in good condition and greased with Cal's...but for top notch performance a Delrin or Teflon washer under the gear makes her slick. Contrary to popular belief...you want all metal friction surfaces smooth. Metal drag surfaces need to be like glass for most power...think clutch plates.

[Reel 224]

This is my first look at the thread and it's very thorough I've learned a lot.. Thanks for starting this Mike

Joe