Looks like I'm doing a fish research project

Started by biggiesmalls, April 20, 2017, 06:19:58 PM

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biggiesmalls

After getting kicked out of one of the ponds in my shopping center (the one with the big bass), I emailed the head of security to see what the big idea was - why couldn't I fish there? Basically, he said the shopping center is a designated wildlife preserve area (even though there's active construction throughout a good bit of it) and that they do not allow fishing because of this. I responded without trying to call BS on his claim, and asked if fishing was possible if it was for a research project. Well, the guy hasn't emailed me back yet (I sent him that response on Wednesday at 9:30 am), but I'd better come up with a "research project" that I can do which would allow me to fish without being bothered - in case he decides it's okay.

So, what's something you might want to see? I don't have too many good ideas for this, maybe just keep a log of details of every large fish that I catch (I'm probably going to go with any bass that's at least 4 pounds and any sunfish that's at least 10" long and/or 1 pound in weight). But then - what would be done with that information afterwards? That's up to you guys - what would you like to see?


Bill B

You could call it a "Species Study" to determine the number of different species of fin fish that are found in this particular body of water.  With anecdotal observations of other aquatic wildlife such as: turtles, mammals (i.e. swamp rats, otters, muskrats, beavers, etc), migratory birds.  If any fin fish are kept due to adverse hook sets, a biological sampling of the stomach contents (the fishes stomach, we already know we will find fish filets in yours  ;D).  Then as Proof of Practice you can submit photos and a log book of fish caught.  May also see if you can find any research that details what type of fish or mammals that would normally be found in your area.  Correlate your catch data with the what you would expect to find. 

But john (Tightlines) is our fish researcher and may be more help than me...Bill
It may not be very productive,
but it's sure going to be interesting!

sdlehr

#2
Quote from: TARFU on April 20, 2017, 07:34:09 PM
But john (Tightlines) is our fish researcher and may be more help than me..
Yeah, I'm betting John can pull a whopper of a BS fishing research project out of his keyster without so much as batting an eyelash.

Sid
Sid Lehr
Veterinarian, fishing enthusiast, custom rod builder, reel collector

biggiesmalls

Nice idea Bill - perhaps I could come up with a tagging system to tag the larger fish in the ponds. The experiment could be to determine the capacity of large fish in a certain pond size.

I've been wanting to keep a log book of my fishing for a while now, here is my excuse to start :)

I have to decide on what fish to record (size-wise), next. My personal bass scale for the south is that a 4-pounder is "nice", anything in the 5-6 range is "big", anything in the 7-9 range is a "lunker", and anything double digits is a "trophy". Anything in the south, I would consider 3 a nice fish, 4-5 a big fish, 6-8 a lunker, and anything 8+ is a trophy. Anything Maryland or downward is south, and anything further up than that is north. I am thinking that I will record fish of 3 pounds and up to be considered "worthy" - since I am fishing relatively small bodies of water.

As far as sunfish - I'll probably record anything that's at least 8" long. 10.5" is a trophy (this is about the size where they can reach a pound), so we'll say an 8"er can be considered "noteworthy".

biggiesmalls

Quote from: sdlehr on April 21, 2017, 01:26:20 AM
Yeah, I'm betting John can pull a whopper of a BS fishing research project out of his keyster without so much as batting an eyelash.

Sid
Lol, great to hear. I'll shoot him a PM.

David Hall

Try this,
There is evidence indicating the primary food source of the local fish has been disturbed and could lead to ecolagicsl disaster.  You are there to collect stomach contents to determine what the fish are eating,
Naturally the fish are going to die when you cut them open so you will dispose of the carcasses in a safe and eco friendly manner.

mikeysm

Game reserves don't protect fish. We have them all around here and fishing is allowed.  He gave you a bunch of bull jut to keep you out. Bad for business people see you fishing.

Mike

SoCalAngler

Quote from: biggiesmalls on April 20, 2017, 06:19:58 PM
After getting kicked out of one of the ponds in my shopping center (the one with the big bass), I emailed the head of security to see what the big idea was - why couldn't I fish there? Basically, he said the shopping center is a designated wildlife preserve area (even though there's active construction throughout a good bit of it) and that they do not allow fishing because of this. I responded without trying to call BS on his claim, and asked if fishing was possible if it was for a research project. Well, the guy hasn't emailed me back yet (I sent him that response on Wednesday at 9:30 am), but I'd better come up with a "research project" that I can do which would allow me to fish without being bothered - in case he decides it's okay.

So, what's something you might want to see? I don't have too many good ideas for this, maybe just keep a log of details of every large fish that I catch (I'm probably going to go with any bass that's at least 4 pounds and any sunfish that's at least 10" long and/or 1 pound in weight). But then - what would be done with that information afterwards? That's up to you guys - what would you like to see?



Lets look at it this way. It may be that to get the permit's to build on that land the owners of the mall needed to keep some of the wild habitat for things like fish, ducks, frogs or what ever. In keeping this area they got their permits. I know it sounds lame but that's how things go now a days.

Lets flip the script a bit and say you built a pond on your land or had one already. You want to build something like a barn, road way to move around or what ever. You go to pull the permits for your construction and your told sure but you must keep some areas for the native habitat. This happens a lot here in So Cal. You now resubmit your plans with what areas to build on and what areas you will keep natural. The plans get approved and all is good. Now here is the kicker, you go by your pond and someone is fishing it. You didn't give them permission nor did they seek it. Would you be happy? I know I would not be and I'd ask them to leave, no security guards here, so the next call would be to the cops. And, if they didn't come things could easily get out of hand.

I don't mean to be a downer but maybe it is better to find another place to fish or get permission in writing from the owner of the land.

Dominick

Biggie go to the planning department and pull the plans.  Finding out the status of the pond is most important.The plans might just say that the pond is a public area.  That means they cannot stop you from fishing.  Make sure you have a fishing license though.  Dominick
Leave the gun.  Take the cannolis.

There are two things I don't like about fishing.  Getting up early in the morning and boats.  The rest of it is fun.

Gfish

#9
A common sport fisheries research study is called "Mark and Recapture". It involves "hook and line sampling" and marking is done with onea those retail-store clothing taggers. You stick 'em right underneath the dorsal fin. Now, what it's supposed ta tell ya, I don't know, distribution? migration? growth rates? survivability after 1st, 2nd, etc.,  capture? Take a note pad to make it look real:species, sex, weight, fork length, and capture location.

John(Tightlines) help?...

Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

Tightlines667

Sorry I am late to the party here.  What a cool idea.  Hatch up a little research project to learn something while fishing. 

I am with Dom here.  I would look into the paperwork first.  Is it public or private?  Does it have any special designation.. such as a wetland easment or designated 'green space'?  You may want to look into whether the state or city has already done any research on the body.  Don't laugh.. you might be surprised.  I would consider contacting the EPA to see if they would accept surface water samples for testing.  This reminds me of a little research project I did on the pond behind my house for my High School Limnology class.  As far as determining what critters live there on a small body simple sampling techniques may be your best bet.   

A mark recapture study of predatory fish would likely be very effective in a small body at getting a population estimate.  You will have to be aware that fishing is selective for certain spe ies and sizes though.  I can write something else if you like.  But I'd recommend just doing a quick online literature search first and find a project that utilizes a similar sampling design scheme.  Minnow traps might be good to sample your minows and forage base.

John
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

biggiesmalls

Lots of good ideas here - I'll definitely start by looking into the "status" of the pond, ie public or private, special designations, etc. Then I'll develop a project idea, I'm liking the ideas in this thread - as well as one that my coworker (who's a marine bio student) came up with. Her idea was similar to mine, basically determine how many mature fish can be sustained in the average pond - ample food source, no extra feeding, etc. Still haven't received any form of contact back from the guy - I'm going to call him sometime, no reason for him to not respond. Even if the answer to all of my questions is no, he could at least tell me that.

SoCalAngler - I can see where you're coming from, however this is in a multi-acre shopping center - not on somebody's privatized land. There are hundreds of people walking and driving past these ponds every day, and a good deal of them are throwing trash inside (if you go out there, you can see all the beer cans, wrappers, cigarette butts, etc) - so you have to wonder why they don't do anything about that, but get so worked up over somebody practicing catch-and-release fishing.

wfjord

#12
Realistically, as others pointed out, it looks like you're gonna have to find another fishing hole unless you can get written permission from the owners of the property. But to get, you've got to give.  Tell the owners you're employed there and you'll regularly clean up any litter and trash from the pond areas for as long as you have fishing privileges. Play it right and it could work.  Keep the security guards and other employees out of the loop until you secure permission and they question you, otherwise don't mention your fishing rights to anyone. I know firsthand of a case where that sort of thing actually worked.

Maybe that security guard likes to fish there, too, and doesn't want you messin' with his fishing hole.