So I called Penn today to ask them why their rods have two rating for line class

[Nasty Wendy]

I have a couple or four Penn trolling rods and they have line class ratings on the rods for Mono and Braid.  The Mono rating for one of my rods is 20-50 and the Braid rating is 30-65.  I needed to know why this was.  They gave me a rather unsatisfactory answer about the diameter differences of the line and yada yada yada stuff that made NO SENSE at all.  I did find out the most important thing though: The rod is 20-50 and you run the risk of breaking the rod by using heavier line than 50 mono or braid if the reel is set to deliver drag based on line heavier than 50 lb test.  I asked so why print on the rod something that would make the rod owner feel safe setting it up for use with 65 lb braid and set their drag pressure for 30% of 65 which in my book is about 22 lbs......ok its 20.5 lbs but its more than 15 lbs which where I fish my 50 lb set ups at strike.  Their response was ...... SILENCE.  And some folks fish higher than the 30% of line test that I fish and of course some lower so the problem could get worse if you go 1/3 or 33.33% of line rating for drag at strike. 


I cannot believe that Penn rated these rods like this for no reason.  I cannot believe that they rated these like this because of the difference in diameter between braid and mono either especially when 80lb braid matches up the 20lb mono diameter wise so the "reason" I was given is just horse crap.

[alantani]

we need a better system. 

It's common on internet boards to see a guy say that he as a reel and wants to match it up to a rod.  It's difficult because rods will typically give you a line weight rating.  Just like with reels, I would rather see them list a drag range.  I believe that using a drag range is the most reliable way to establish a proper rating for a rod.  Experienced fishermen all have a "feel" for what is well balance, but have probably not thought it through in an OBJECTIVE manner.  Yeah, there's that word again!  Here's the procedure that I go through.  

Place any reel with any heavy line (it doesn't matter) on the rod.  Button down the drag.  Run the line through the guides and tie it off to a milk jug.  Place the rod in a holder of some sort so that the rod butt rests at a 45 degree angle.  Now add weight (cut a hole in the jug) until the rod bends to the desired flex that you want.  I look for the rod to bend until the tip is midway between the top of the arc and the bottom of butt of the rod.  You may desire more or less flex.  It depends upon the type of rod and your personal preferences.

Now total up the weight in the jug.  Let's say that you have a medium weight rod that flexes to a desired amount with only 10 pounds of STATIC weight.  You have now determined the proper drag setting for your rod.  

Next, choose a percentage drag setting.  Different people have different preferences.  You might typically fish as heavy a drag setting as 33% or as light as 25%.  Anything more risks line breakage (been there).  Anything less is wasted unless line abrasion resistance is a concern.  Admittedly, I fish some rigs as heavy as 40% and others as light as 12%.  Let's just say that we will stay within average parameters.  With a desired 10 pound drag setting at a 33%, you need a 30 pound mono.

Finally, decide how much line you really need.  Typically you only need 300 yards of line capacity.  What kind of fish can take a 300 yard run on you if the drags are properly set?   Fer cryin' out loud, guys!  That's the length of three football fields.  Why in the world would anyone need 1000 yards of line?  In the vast majority of cases, it's lack of confidence, low drag settings or you're fishing WAY back.  Remember out friend at the dinner party?  Yeah, very few fishermen actually check their drag settings with a scale.  I'm sorry that this is so harsh, but unless the fish is larger than 5 times the line weight, I see no excuse for getting "spooled."

Finally, select a reel. It has to have the capacity to hold the required amount of line, deliver the required amount of drag and still maintain the required amount of free spool.  Luckily, you've got just the perfect reel!

[MarkT]

Most people fish with a lighter topshot than the spectra so that if there's a break, it'll be in the mono/fluoro and not the spectra. So if it's rated for 20-50 mono you'd probably be running 30-65 spectra under it.

The rating range isn't accurate on any rod. Usually you toss out the ends of the range and use the middle. Most 20-50 rods are 30# sticks.  It would be better if they rated them in terms of #'s of drag!

[Bryan Young]

I normally choose the middle of the mono rating.

He spectra rating, to me, is the rating which relates to an equivalent reels size and what size spectra it would hold.

[philaroman]

well, a good simple knot may give you >90% strength w/ mono, but <80% w/ braid...  so  it kinda' makes sense

[oc1]

Can one rated 30-65# spectra lift 65# of dead weight without breaking the rod?
-steve

[Nasty Wendy]

Yes we need a better system.  Rods rated on lbs of drag would be a great standard to have and the only second rating needed would be kg of drag.

[Ron Jones]

That is one of my favorite posts of all time on any forum. It is where Alan truly shows his genius. Manufacturers ratings are usually given for a reason OTHER than actually informing the consumer about what to expect from the product. Alan always comes up with how to test a product for your specific needs.
Ron

[MarkT]

Can one rated 30-65# spectra lift 65# of dead weight without breaking the rod?
-steve

Not a chance! The assumption is that you're fishing with the drag set to 25-33% of the line rating. Most rods won't fish anywhere close to the max rating. A few can fish to or above the top but most can't come close. A rod rated for 20-50# mono or 30-65# spectra is a 10# of drag rod. Some don't even make that!

[Gfish]

Mabey Penn and others just want to get the word "braid" onto the rating section in order to broaden the marketability of their products. Think about a novice, or a 60+ year old guy who's just gettin back into the game and was out before braid was popularized. If it says both "mono" & "braid" they might be thinkin "ok, this one'll have guides that'll handle both". One a the reasons I bought the shotgun I did, was that it was rated for both lead and steel shot. Did that mean the barrel's made a harder steel? I don't know...

Myself I stayed oldschool with mono 'till 2012. When I got some $, I bought new reels, listened to tackle shop guys and started readin up on products. Though not perfect for everything, Braid/spectra's the best finesse fishing line for me, ever.
Gfish

[Nasty Wendy]

Can one rated 30-65# spectra lift 65# of dead weight without breaking the rod?
-steve

Not a chance! The assumption is that you're fishing with the drag set to 25-33% of the line rating. Most rods won't fish anywhere close to the max rating. A few can fish to or above the top but most can't come close. A rod rated for 20-50# mono or 30-65# spectra is a 10# of drag rod. Some don't even make that!

Well I set my drag with deep drop fishing weights and my 50 lb line on that 20-50 rod is set for 15 lbs of drag @ strike and the rod admirably held those 15 lbs of deep drop weights off the ground with a very nice bend in the rod.  I feel confident fishing this rod with 50 lb line @ 15 lbs of drag.  This is one of the Penn Rampage all roller 20-50 trolling rods.

[Ron Jones]

Glad it worked out for you. Enjoy the fishing.
Ron

[intili]

in all reality most mono breaks way above its rating, whereas braid breaks closer to it rating.... this would have been an appropriate response!

[Rickb]

  Alan
      I think this is excellent! I started doing something very similar years ago after I learned not to trust the manufacturers rating and set my drag for the rods. I learned to use a scale eventually
     WHen fishing  in a boat (freshwater)I never needed a lot of line
      I have been spooled in freshwater while fishing off end of jetty and also when fishing at a dam in floodwater.you can't use a boat near some of the dams, water is in the trees downstream so you can't go downstream in those situations.I had to get reels with larger line capacity and hope I could wear them down and drag em back up river(sometimes it worked)
    Rick

we need a better system. 

It's common on internet boards to see a guy say that he as a reel and wants to match it up to a rod.  It's difficult because rods will typically give you a line weight rating.  Just like with reels, I would rather see them list a drag range.  I believe that using a drag range is the most reliable way to establish a proper rating for a rod.  Experienced fishermen all have a "feel" for what is well balance, but have probably not thought it through in an OBJECTIVE manner.  Yeah, there's that word again!  Here's the procedure that I go through.  

Place any reel with any heavy line (it doesn't matter) on the rod.  Button down the drag.  Run the line through the guides and tie it off to a milk jug.  Place the rod in a holder of some sort so that the rod butt rests at a 45 degree angle.  Now add weight (cut a hole in the jug) until the rod bends to the desired flex that you want.  I look for the rod to bend until the tip is midway between the top of the arc and the bottom of butt of the rod.  You may desire more or less flex.  It depends upon the type of rod and your personal preferences.

Now total up the weight in the jug.  Let's say that you have a medium weight rod that flexes to a desired amount with only 10 pounds of STATIC weight.  You have now determined the proper drag setting for your rod.  

Next, choose a percentage drag setting.  Different people have different preferences.  You might typically fish as heavy a drag setting as 33% or as light as 25%.  Anything more risks line breakage (been there).  Anything less is wasted unless line abrasion resistance is a concern.  Admittedly, I fish some rigs as heavy as 40% and others as light as 12%.  Let's just say that we will stay within average parameters.  With a desired 10 pound drag setting at a 33%, you need a 30 pound mono.

Finally, decide how much line you really need.  Typically you only need 300 yards of line capacity.  What kind of fish can take a 300 yard run on you if the drags are properly set?   Fer cryin' out loud, guys!  That's the length of three football fields.  Why in the world would anyone need 1000 yards of line?  In the vast majority of cases, it's lack of confidence, low drag settings or you're fishing WAY back.  Remember out friend at the dinner party?  Yeah, very few fishermen actually check their drag settings with a scale.  I'm sorry that this is so harsh, but unless the fish is larger than 5 times the line weight, I see no excuse for getting "spooled."

Finally, select a reel. It has to have the capacity to hold the required amount of line, deliver the required amount of drag and still maintain the required amount of free spool.  Luckily, you've got just the perfect reel!

[rippin_lips]

I put very little stock in the line ratings of rods.  I use it only as a relative guide.  Every brand rates them differently and there is no standard.  The only thing the line rating tells me on a rod, is that a rod rated for 7-12 lb is "lighter" than one rated for 15-20 lb.