What's your preferred shark rig?

[biggiesmalls]

Yeah, they're using some crazy stuff. Tunastick runs stuff like 14/0 Senators, 12/0 Everols, and 80w Internationals. BlacktipH recommends nothing but Tiagra 130's, but he's sponsored by Shimano now so pretty sure he won't recommend anything except for their most expensive reels. As far as quickly, I think that any shark 8 feet or over will give my 9/0 a run for its money. I plan on loading up with some 60 pound mono that tests well over 60#, which should give me plenty of capacity to work with. Either that, or 50# mono with 50-100 yards of 80# on top.

The current rod I'll be rolling with is a 5'8" 40-80, custom built by John (thorhammer). It's going to be one sweet rod when it's finished, if John chimes in here again I'm sure he'll back me up on that one. It'll have straight turbos, it used to have rollers on it but I went turbos so I had less stuff to gunk up on me and less stuff to do maintenance on.

[Tightlines667]

I have a pair of 9/0s upgraded w/Brian's 7 stack drags, delron under gear/overstack washers, Aluminum frames, SS ProChallenger helical cut gears, SS arms, AlanTani offset handles, and new bearings.  The stock aluminum spools hold 650yds of JB solid core 100lb and 150yds of 100lb mono (joined with FG Chain knots).  I have them on fully rollered IGFA 80 class Penn Tuna sticks.  I look forward to testing them out on some Pelagics.

Just sharing as an option.

John

[biggiesmalls]

Thanks for the response John. Yours have much more upgrades than mine will, don't give me any ideas!

I've got Brian's 7 stack, SS main and pinion gear (or at least SS-coated), new arm and handle from Smooth Drags, and a SS gear sleeve from Alan. I'll have mine on a 40-80 pound 5'8" stand up rod from John (thorhammer), with full turbos. My reel's also powder coated. I don't think I'm going with braid, not necessarily because it'll get cut off but more because it's expensive, and I've already put a lot into it.

[Jeri]

Hi 'biggiesmalls',

Differences between African beaches and Carolinas?? Both probably have sand, edged with salty water, tides that go in and out, long shore oceanic current and underwatre features like sandbars with gullies - basically probably not a lot, just the species that swim in those waters.

As to how long rigs last, well that would all depend on usage and the number of sharks caught. However, I think that you have mixed up my two posts, one was aimed at cast baits, the next baits taken out by kayak. Nearly all our shark fishing is with cast baits, as this has been determined by our competition rules, which do influence most folks fishing styles and techniques.

To achieve this we mostly use rods between 13' and 15' depending on reel type - we have found longer rods work better with fixed spool reels (spinners). Here in Namibia it is mostly 1 piece rods, but in South Africa they favour 3 piece rods of similar proportions. The rods are nearly all carbon composite construction and depending on the construction designed to cast from 6oz + bait up to 10oz + bait, dependant on the person and the conditions prevailing. As said there has been a huge changeover to fixed spool and braided lines and we are now sing slightly lighter proportioned rods, the favoured are either 7oz + bait or 8oz + bait.

Our main target species is the Copper shark - as per the picture, maximum size is about 8-10' overall length, so we don't have the issues of large Tiger or Hammerhead sharks to contend with in our waters. However, most reels are loaded with braid in the 50-80lb line range, though we formerly used to use nylon in the 40-50lb range and multiplier reels.

As to your other questions, we generally use grapnel/breakaway type sinkers to anchor the larger baits that we cast, due to the amount of cross current that we experience. It is a factor of the power of the water on the bait, rather than on the line that is the issue. Though there are two schools of thought. One suggests large baits soaked for up to 1 hour before refreshing, the other school of thought is smaller baits that are allowed to only soak for 20-30 minutes before refreshing and re-cast to the exact same area. The issue is scent being carried off the bait, acting as the attractant to passing sharks.

The length of the rig in the picture is 5', as that is a dedicated casting rig, which would be knotted to a casting leader of 100-150lb braid. The casting leder would then be tied to the braid main line of 40-50lb braid. We would normally look to have a reelw ith a maximum of 600 metres of main line, as it is not unusual to need nearly all of it, and very occassionally you might just get spooled by something that has an urgent appointment in Brazil!!!

As mentioned above the rods are 14-15' long just to drop the bigger baits out to 100 metres, but for some of our much smaller sharks - sub 6', we would at competition level be looking to present baits much further out, but in those circumstances we would be using a 6oz + small bait, like a mullet head, and be casting to over 150 metres. Distance is king in our fishery, especially at competition time, but for those species, we would down size to 30lb braid to maximise casting opportunity, and reduce the size of the leader strength.

You question about leader strength and wire sizes is very dependant on species. For all our sharks - so sub-10' long we would not experience a problem with the 100-150lb nylon or braid leaders, unless the sea bed had a lot of rocks or reef nearby. Wire sizes are a different matter, for Copper sharks 135lb nylon coated is more than sufficient, have landed them on 90lb 7 strand nylon coated. However, we do at times get a lot of Sevengill sharks which have awesome dentation and then we increase to either 270lb 7 strand nylon coated or 175lb 49 strand plain stainless wire. The point or preference for not using single strand is that it does not present a bait that is mobile and able to move well in the wash of the sea, and it has issues with kinking. This flexibility nature of the hook length wire is also attributed to how we prepare our baits at times, we do on occassions build a bait of cutlets surrounding a central core of floatation material, all bound together with elasticated bait thread. This then presents a bait close to the sea bed, but off the bottom, that moves about and lets scent off more quickly than a static bottom sitting bait - just a local technique that we use especially in cleaner water.

Hope all the above gives you some interesting items to consider when planning your next fishing trip.

Cheers from sunny Africa.

Jeri

[biggiesmalls]

Okay, so for comparison - our beaches are pretty much all sand, very few rocks here. Some shells, but nothing crazy. Can't recall how many sandbars are at the spot, but it's nothing ridiculous. I'd imagine the beaches are pretty similar, then.

It looks like I did mix up your posts - I didn't know you were talking about separate kayaked and casted rigs. I don't know if I have access to a 13-15' rod - few people go over 12' here, with maybe the odd 13' rod showing up. As far as our species, we've mostly got sandbar and blacktip sharks that max out at about 6 feet, maybe a little bigger. We also have sand tigers which fight like wet towels but get 8-10 feet, and then bulls which can get 8 feet, duskies that can reach 10 feet, and tigers that can rarely get up to 12 feet. We've got sharpnoses and dogfish that max out at like 3' as well. So it sounds like 9/10 sharks we catch could be caught on the rigs you use.

As far as sinkers, the grapnel sinker you're talking about is what some people call a spider weight here (myself included). This is actually what I was planning on using for casting, so that's good. Then there are bigger ones that people make (I believe Daron has a thread on them) by placing copper wire inside of a copper pipe, and then filling it with lead. These hold super well in any kind of current, and are pretty cheap to build.

Okay, so for your casting rig - you've got a 5' trace of wire with double hooks, sinker dropper, and then maybe 8-10 feet of 100-150 pound mono? Then for a kayaked rig, 3' of heavier wire with a 12' section of heavier mono, either single or double hooks, and the same sinker setup.

What do you feel the advantages/disadvantages of a sliding sinker are, versus a fixed sinker on a breakaway dropper? Do you have a way to get the sinkers back, or do you just leave them? I'd imagine after enough sharks, the sinkers get expensive to replace.

Two other questions off the top of my head - one, what pound mono are you using on the bigger sharks? 100-150 on the smaller guys, then maybe something like 200-300 pound for the larger fish? And two - what's the thought behind fishing with a maximum of 3' of wire for bigger sharks, while there's a 5' trace for smaller sharks on casted setups?

Thanks, and sorry for all the questions
Drew

[Jeri]

Hi Drew,

Right now we have some species to work with; everything up to and including Sand Tiger, I would happily use my casting rig. We get Sand Tigers down in South Africa, they call them 'Raggies'. On Bulls and Tigers I would increase the wire strength, and possibly the length, but dealing with Tiger sharks on surf rods is for the young and strong. Bull sharks are encountered down in South Africa, called Zambezis, as they occassionally are found up that river system.

The point of the slightly longer wire system on the cast baits is that we do fish near rocks and reef, and it just allows a little more insurance against getting rubbed off on a reef, and something to grab hold of, when leadering the sharks in the surf. On a 'kayak' bait, you are generally looking to drop baits well away from underwater obstructions, so no need for the extra length of wire. I used to do a lot of boat fishing for sharks, and even then only used 18-24" wire sections - never had need for longer.

On the sinkers - do a google search of 'breakaway sinkers' - loads of pictures. We normally get our sinkers back, so not a real issue. But, even then, when you compare the cost of a trip to the sea, food, fuel, bait, etc - the cost of a few sinkers is mimimal. The sliding sinker does allow the shark a limited amount of movement before feeling the sinker drak on the bottom, which when they are wary might mean the difference between a hook up or not. They are not the impulsive instant eating machines people believe, they can be quite sensitive about what they eat at times - hence trying to give the bait a bit of possible movement.

On the issue of leaders, we currently use 100-150lb braid leaders on our casting rigs, and have no problems with the sharks that we catch or the length of the fight. On kayak baits, sure go a little heavier if that makes you feel confident. As said before sit down with some fine sand paper and try and rub through a heavy mard mono leader, it takes a lot of time to significantly compromise the stength.

On the length of rods, our 14-15' are what the local market have adapted to, they are not like typical US style surf rods, which have mostly evolved from spinning. The design and actions of the rods are very different, much more faster tapers (tip only action), while your rods are more through action for ease of spinning. Neither are right or wrong, just look to find a rod blank that has some backbone to be able to cast the weight of bait and sinker you intend to use.

The use of spinner reels and heavy braid is a huge step forward in getting casting distance, but you do have to be aware of the strength of the braid when buying the reel, to find something that matches. Older style multipliers are fine, you mentioned a Jigmaster, but they are limited to only using nylon and have a limit to what you can achieve with the drag. We are generally using bigger spinners which are offering 40lbs + of drag, and at times that is all being used.

Hope that clears up some of your questions.

Cheers

Jeri

[CapeFish]

Wow, thanks for that impressive write-up! Yeah, the Abu is definitely not the best reel for the task - I was planning on about 300 yards of 30# braid with the rest 30# mono on top. I would've liked to have 50# braid underneath, but it won't give me enough capacity. I might have to find an old Jigmaster (like the 505HS that I just got rid of) and load it with 300 yards of 50# braid with 30# mono on top - it would probably make for a much nicer setup.

That is one slick-looking rig, I'll tell you that. I might have to steal the idea, maybe modify it a little bit. Is the sinker fixed in place, or sliding? I will definitely be going with circle hooks - I don't want to risk a shark's life if I don't have to.

Given me a lot of thoughts as to rig design! Thanks for your insight. Oh yeah, awesome shark as well!

Just to chime in here, if your idea is to cast with a multiplier, you should look at something other than a Jigmaster. I know you can pimp them with all the extra stuff you can get in the US, but as a fishing tool, out the box a Finnor Lethal 30 is a much better choice, it holds more line and casts very well. Old Toriums and Trinidads are also very good tools, especially a Trini 40. They all also have higher gear ratios which helps a lot if a fish runs in on you.

[thorhammer]

Drew use a Breakaway bomb; they have them at Island Tackle and I threw them a hundo easily. If youre going to cast heavy bait at night these guys are correct.  The only good thing about the Jiggy is the take apart feature. Take plenty of spools. Best look a 9500ss. 

[biggiesmalls]

John, what exactly is a breakaway bomb? Is it something similar to this:

Or is it something completely different?
I'll be on the lookout for a 9500 or save up for something nicer, there's a few 9500's on eBay for less than $100. Might post something in the for sale forum and see if anybody's got a cheap one, or even just see if somebody's willing to rent me one for a week for the Bald Head trip. Might go with that last option, and then buy an Avet MXL or a Saragosa 10000 or 20000 for the long run, when I've got a little more stashed up.

CapeFish, thanks for the suggestion. I will probably buy or borrow a 9500 for the short run, and then in the long run buy an Avet MXL or a Saragosa 10000 or 20000. Loaded with 50 pound or 65 pound braid, this should be a slick setup for most sharks under, say, 150 pounds.

Jeri, that clears up almost all my questions. I can't think of anything else right now, I'll draw up some pictures of casted/kayaked rigs and post them here sometime later.

[thorhammer]

Yes, that's it.  also look for Mitchell 488. Same size. put in new carbontex  and you can out less than $80  on a reel you can actually work on, and will hold probably 500 yds 65 braid, maybe more. I'll take it off your hands when you "upgrade". But see if you can break it first....good luck

[biggiesmalls]

Thanks for the advice. Check this out  -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-GARCIA-MITCHELL-488-SPINNING-REEL-FOR-PARTS-/382077499693?hash=item58f597f92d:g:9xgAAOSwaEhZEgGP
Looks like it's missing the side plate on the main body, not even sure if that's replaceable or not. If it is, I might buy it, replace whatever else needs replacing and roll with it for a while. Need to find a rod to go with it too.

How does the breakaway bomb work?

[thorhammer]

That body will cost you at least 80$ in parts and Fred or Keith to fix. let it ride and get one that's working. but yes that's the reel.  I have six, plus a 486. Don't get 388 or 386...too slow.

Breakaway is just that...I add a rubber band if really heavy sea. when a fish takes off and you need to get it back, sufficient pressure will pop the anchor wires out of their divets so they fold down flush and pull out of the sand, sort of like backing over a Danforth anchor will pop it out.

[foakes]

Hi Drew --

You ask good questions that will help many here on the Board.

As to that big Mitchell -- if I could help with any parts, would be glad to do so at no charge to get you going.

But when you are all done, I am not sure it would be half as capable as a Penn 9500SS, or similar large Penn.

I do not have a lot of parts for either of these big spinners -- however, would be glad to help with whatever I may have at N/C.

Keith will have more experience with both the big Mitchells and the larger Penn Spinners.

Lets get his opinions --

Best,

Fred

[Shark Hunter]

Drew,
I haven't responded to this post since I've been on Vacation.
A day of Storms and lightning has kept me off the beach today.
Slept in and took the family out to a Nice Dinner.
Everyone has their own opinions on rigs and their functionality as well as durability.
The first thing you have to come to terms with. These are Disposable terminal tackle.
No matter how well you take care of them. After a few days fishing them, they have to be replaced.
The harsh saltwater will eat up any hook, abrade the strongest of line, and just make them sketchy in my opinion.
I've learned a few things from people along the way. I am by no means an expert, but I have full confidence in my rigs, no matter what picks up my bait. As far as casted rigs, I do what I have to make it fit the rod and reel and bait used for the application.
My staple kayaked rig is a Mustad 20/0 with 12' of 480lb cable and a 400lb mono sliding trace. All double crimped and a 1 lb spider weight.
These are very economical to make. I have seen variations, but this is what I use and they get it done.
You can buy these hooks for less that 2 bucks each if you shop around. I Think I gave $50 bucks for a 500 yard spool of the cable.
I only fished this one for a few hours and you can see, the salt is already eating at the finish.
Some people might call this too big, I consider it standard equipment.
Great hook up ratio. I have seen it catch anything from a 3' sharpnose to a 11'6" Great Hammer.
Daron

[Jeri]

Hi Drew,

That sinker is the breakaway type, but that particular design are perhaps the most expensive. Normally they are made wholly with lead, with the side divots cast into the body - much cheaper and still effective.

You seem to be bouncing between multipliers and Fixed spools in your reels for casting. I would suggest looking at spinners if you wish to use braid as your mainline. The issue with all reels for shore casting for sharks is capacity and drag capability. While Jigmasters are probably cheap, and can be enhanced, the likes of Avet MXL do not have sufficient drag capability nor line capacity for some of the 'casting species' you are looking at. If you are intent on going the multiplier route, I would agree with CapeFish fully on the virtues of the Finnor Lethal 30, 300 metres of 50lb braid as backing then 300 metres of 0.55mm nylon on top will give you more than enough for most sharks you are likely to encounter, and a drag that doesn't need enhancing; I used them personally and never had a failure, before switching over to fixed spool reels.

If you are going down the road of Fixed spool reels, then again the same basic two criteria are the most salient (drag and capacity), especially if you are using 50lb braid -a point here 65lb braid will not give you much benefit, as you won't be able to pull that kind of strength line more than a good 50lb braid - least of all with a long surf rod. However 50lb braid will give you better casting distance as it is thinner, and greater capacity on your chosen reel. (see the post in the Black Hole section of this forum on how much drag they managed with just a 10' surf rod)

We have gone through a lot of different reels in our local fishery, and some have been found seriously wanting in the specs department, when used in real life and in the slightly more extreme environment of surf shark fishing. Top runners to date have been Van Staal 275, Quantum Cabo 100/120, Penn Slammer III 18000 and the odd well looked after Stella 20000. Second tier of desirability have been Saragosa 20000 & Finnor Lethal 100. Haven't seen the Mitchel 488 or the 486 being used, but their heritage is as a strong reel, but the drag will certainly need to be enhanced to try and get greater pulling power. After that the reels barely last anytime at all, mainly due to failing drags and low strength frames or gears, especially when put under loads of more than 30lbs of real time drag. Personally I use a Cabo 80 or 100 and they have worked well, but a much overlooked reel is the Finnor Lethal 100, highly rated reel on the Alan Hawk scale of reels - especially for the price.

The point of using fixed spool reels is that they will all cast better than using a multiplier - especially for distance when you are going through your learning phase - less problems with sorting out crow's nests when trying to cast bigger baits on a long rod - nearly impossible to throw a crow's nest with a fixed spool. After that hurdle has been overcome, then it is just down to capacity and drag capability.

Try and keep as much of your set up as simple as possible, so that you can concentrate on hooking and then landing the sharks, rather than worry about the strengths of various component. Again, as soon as the word 'shark' comes into the discussion, folks go mad in the strength requirements of everything - all you need is enough to do the job, not double and triple. Because of the dynamics of fishing with a long surf rod, the maximum amount of load you are going to place on any single component is about 30lbs, so add a safety margin, and say 50lbs, and it all starts to become realistic and not super heavy weight and difficult to use effectively.

Hope that helps

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri