alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Loose Shimano drive shaft post
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
July 26, 2017, 10:44:46 PM *
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Author Topic: Loose Shimano drive shaft post  (Read 1332 times)
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wfjord
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« on: May 17, 2017, 10:03:43 PM »

I was trouble shooting on an old Bantam Mag 250sg to find out why it's reeling rough and discovered the post that the drive shaft turns on is a bit loose in the set plate. The post has a slight wobble and will partially turn (about a quarter of the way around).

I'm hoping this is fixable and would appreciate any help with it.
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oc1
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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2017, 01:50:46 AM »

Uh oh.  About all you can do is try to peen it back down and hope it is straight and square when you finish.  I would see if the shoulder at the bottom is wide enough to be supported on the jaws of a vice to help avoid bending the shaft.  Then whack the back side with a wide flat-end punch and hammer.  Then polish down the nicks the vice jaws made on the shoulder.  It's a tough one.  Good luck with it.
-steve
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wfjord
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« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2017, 09:14:20 AM »

This is not looking good. I don't think it'll work on my bench vice; several other posts and raised area close by.  I'd cause more damage than good.  I'm wondering if cutting into it from the back side and soldering it might work.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 09:18:32 AM by wfjord » Logged
RowdyW
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2017, 09:42:17 AM »

Solder would be a waste of time, it's much to soft. Even brazing wouldn't be strong enough. Time to get a new or good used bridge.
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oc1
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2017, 11:09:32 AM »

There are no replacement parts so it's either fix it or toss it.  I'd still try peening it from the back side first.  It's not usable now so you have nothing to loose. 
-steve
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foakes
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2017, 11:34:13 AM »

One thing I have had success with is:

Drilling from the backside of the plate -- a 1/8" hole -- find an appropriate SS machine screw with a large, flat head.

Tap threads into the hole to match the screw -- insert the screw tightly using Loctite -- let it sit for 24 hours, then grind the head down as much as possible for clearance while maintaining holding integrity.

After you have ground the head down, and cleaned the plate again -- dry it with a blow dryer -- and cover the head of the screw and surrounding ajacent surface area with a coating of Tac-Glue.  Let dry for about another day.

Wash it off -- lube it up -- and hope it is square.

If the backside currently has a peened over rivet attachment point -- grind that off to slightly below flat grade -- before drilling and tapping threads.  This will allow more clearance -- while also pulling the post towards the screw.  Use a drill press vise -- wood, rubber, or friction tape faced -- and a drill press set at low speed.

Or look for a donor reel.

Like Steve sez -- Peening may work -- the risk is in doing worse damage.

Best,

Fred

« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 11:35:43 AM by foakes » Logged

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wfjord
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« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2017, 01:19:26 PM »

Thanks guys for your thoughts and ideas. Being new at reel work, I have to ask --what is the bridge, as RowdyW mentioned? Is that referring to the set plate in this case? I'm considering a new used set plate, which is probably going to be my best option.
I'm going to at least try to repair the problem for the experience... and to see if I can do it.  As Steve said, I've got nothing to lose. The worse case scenario is I'll end up with a parts reel (since I've got two more identical models that I've rebuilt, upgraded and use regularly).

Fred, your idea sounds like the direction I'd prefer to take, although I'm currently without a drill press and don't have a drill press vice or any taps. I'd have to do it by hand.

Some ideas I'm thinking about: using a dremel on the backside of the set plate, to cut through the bottom of the post and into the set plate and inserting a piece of stainless steel to keep the post from turning. How to keep it in place is the question --would a little solder do it? Is there an adhesive that would do it? Would Loctite 271 be of use?
Also, I have some hard stainless steel hooks and thought about snipping off the point of one and hammering it in as a wedge.
Any opinions on the viability of those ideas?

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ReelClean
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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2017, 05:06:32 PM »

A few tweeks I can think of if you want to persevere, ie if you have nothing to lose.
If you have a nearby engineering shop they may have the wherewithall to press this for you.
You would need a high tensile metal tube to fit over the shaft and rest on the flange on the bottom of the shaft. A deep impact socket of the appropriate size may be suitable?  A lathe "dead centre" or something turned to fit; or the right shape to fit into that recess in the bottom of the shaft.  Set up in a hydraulic shop press you should be able to swage that shaft back into the backplate (or a good whack with a heavy hammer perhaps).  I suspect that is how it is assembled in the first place.
A less precise option (if you can find that tube to fit over the shaft and set it solidly up in a vice)  is to use a small punch to peen/punch the backplate in a tight circle around the bottom of the shaft where you have indicated with that scribe.  This would tighten the backplate around the shaft, but may move the shaft if you aren't careful.  You would need to go side to side, evenly etc to prevent the shaft from tilting one way or another as it is tightening.  A hollow punch slightly larger than the bottom of that shaft might also displace enough metal on the backplate to tighten evenly.
cheers
Steve
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 05:10:39 PM by ReelClean » Logged

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wfjord
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« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2017, 06:14:04 PM »

ReelClean, you're probably a much more technical minded person than me, and I think I'm sort of following you on most, or at least some, of what you're saying. But it's giving me an idea that might be sort of what you have in mind...

If I take the drive shaft and slide it down onto that shaft post, and find a steel ball bearing of an affective size to place under the bottom of the shaft post --and then whack the top of the shaft post, that may do the job.  I'd need several sizes of ball bearings to choose from and I'm not clear on what size might work best.  Where does one buy several ball bearings in various sizes?
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ReelClean
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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2017, 06:27:51 PM »

ReelClean, you're probably a much more technical minded person than me, and I think I'm sort of following you on most, or at least some, of what you're saying. But it's giving me an idea that might be sort of what you have in mind...

If I take the drive shaft and slide it down onto that shaft post, and find a steel ball bearing of an affective size to place under the bottom of the shaft post --and then whack the top of the shaft post, that may do the job.  I'd need several sizes of ball bearings to choose from and I'm not clear on what size might work best.  Where does one buy several ball bearings in various sizes?

I would be concerned about tweaking the shaft as it is one and the same material so it could bend anywhere, including somewhere you don't want, when struck unsupported by the tube on the flange.  If you are going to whack the shaft I would be looking at trying to peen or spike the backplate as I suspect it is a softer metal and would yield before the shaft (maybe, you hope!).
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 06:31:30 PM by ReelClean » Logged

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MarkT
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2017, 06:31:11 PM »

The bridge is that brass plate that holds all the parts, including the drive shaft.
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oc1
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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2017, 01:35:39 AM »

That is not what I was expecting to see on the back side.  The 100's have a flattened rivet-like head.  There is not much to peen there but it has a ready-made hole for a screw like Fred described.  
-steve
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 01:37:23 AM by oc1 » Logged
wfjord
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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2017, 05:01:18 AM »

That hole in the bottom is only a couple or so millimeters deep, but a good start for drilling. I think that's going to be the best route.

On the upper and lower side of the end of that shaft butt, there are two very small holes in the plate, barely visible and partially covered by the butt of the shaft. That gave me the idea of trying to drive a little wedge or two up into it.
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oc1
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2017, 12:32:21 PM »

I wonder if that was a two-part rivet and the bottom (a button with a post) fell off?
-steve
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wfjord
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2017, 04:54:26 PM »

I wonder if that was a two-part rivet and the bottom (a button with a post) fell off?
-steve

Steve, I don't think so.  I checked my other two BMP 250SGs and they all look the same on the bottom.


The bridge is that brass plate that holds all the parts, including the drive shaft.
Thanks, I sorta suspected that, but usually see it listed as the set plate in various schematics.

In this particular case it seems to be plated aluminum or some other relatively soft metal.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 05:20:52 PM by wfjord » Logged
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