Line capacity MATH

[Decker]

Can someone check my math for calculating line capacity?   I'm not looking for a chart, but rather a way of calculating it myself.

For example, Scott's state on their Jigmaster specs page that a 500 hold 275 yds. of 30 lb monofilament.  I assume that spec came from Penn.  Surfing the Internet I find that 30lb mono has a diameter of about 0.55mm.   I guess the best way to calculate capacities of other lines for the 500 would be as a ratio.  An example:

• If with 0.55 mm line I can fit 275 yds, then how much line that is 0.41mm (65lb PowerPro) would fit the same spool?  
• 0.55/0.41=1.34   So, there would be a 34% capacity gain from the 30lb mono to 65lb braid.
• 1.34x275=368.5 So, about 368 yds of 65lb braid would fit a Jigmaster 500 spool.
  

Does this seem correct?

[boon]

Not sure where 0.016 came from?

As an oversimplification; it would be about the cross-sectional area of the line.

Area = pi x radius^2

0.55 mono, area =~0.24
0.41 braid, area = ~0.13

0.24/0.13 = ~1.8

So I would expect you to get roughly 1.8 times as much line on; a pinch under 500 yards.

But then you have to factor in that small circles tesselate with less waste than larger ones, so you will fit slightly extra due to less wasted space, and the fact that braid deforms better to fill gaps.

This is loosely confirmed by the numbers on Okuma's site, for example a Mak16 will hold 500yd of 0.55 and 870yd of 0.42

[Three se7ens]

It is tricky to figure accurately.  When you consider monofilament is basically round, the larger the line gets, the more wasted space there is between coils and layers of line.  Braid is better about laying flat and nesting tightly, but published diameter numbers are rarely accurate. 

The math to do it accurately is an equation way beyond me.  Its a little easier to manage by experience when you have done a few though.  I have a number of offshore spinning reels all spooled with daiwa saltiga boat braid, 55 lb.  I have found that capacity nearly perfectly matches the advertised capacity of 14 lb mono on my reels.  80 lb braid is usually between 20 and 25 lb mono in my experience. 

Most accurate way to tell?  Have your line spooled by a shop that sells it by the yard. 

[Caranx]

I think the most accurate way is to the nearest football field or use a rangefinder at an open area...  JK

[oc1]

I think line manufacturers should provide the yards per cubic inch (or some similar units).  Then you only need to figure the volume (cubic inches) of the spool (or part of a spool) that you want to fill to determine the length of line.  Curved flanges make the spool volume a little tricky to calculate but you can get close without much effort.
-steve

[Tiddlerbasher]

On my home built line spooler I fitted a converted surveyors measuring wheel - dirt cheap and pretty accurate. I only really take notice of it if I'm spooling for someone else.
I kind of ignore it for my own uses

[Decker]

Not sure where 0.016 came from?

As an oversimplification; it would be about the cross-sectional area of the line.

Area = pi x radius^2

0.55 mono, area =~0.24
0.41 braid, area = ~0.13

0.24/0.13 = ~1.8

So I would expect you to get roughly 1.8 times as much line on; a pinch under 500 yards.

But then you have to factor in that small circles tesselate with less waste than larger ones, so you will fit slightly extra due to less wasted space, and the fact that braid deforms better to fill gaps.

This is loosely confirmed by the numbers on Okuma's site, for example a Mak16 will hold 500yd of 0.55 and 870yd of 0.42

Hats off to you, Boon, for this explanation! 

The "0.016" was a typo;corrected.

Never came across the word "tesselate" before. A good word for the digital age. Hope I get to use it in Scrabble someday

If I could get close to 500 yds of 65lb braid on Jigmaster, that would be great.

Thanks again for your insight!

What got me thinking about this is that many of the upgrades done on this site (sleeve, drags, frame, etc.) are increasing the strength of the reel, but the other aspect is line capacity.  If  a spool can hold double the length of braid as of mono, then that seems to indicate that smaller, hot-rodded reels can move up to the next class.  Couldn't a beefed-up vintage Jiggy with braid do the work of a Senator 4/0 of the same era?   It's probably obvious to a lot of the guys on this site, but I've just begun to process this

[Decker]

I think line manufacturers should provide the yards per cubic inch (or some similar units).  Then you only need to figure the volume (cubic inches) of the spool (or part of a spool) that you want to fill to determine the length of line.  Curved flanges make the spool volume a little tricky to calculate but you can get close without much effort.
-steve

I have a crazy suggestion for calculating spool volume.   

• Get a can or two of Playdoh
• make a cubic inch of Playdoh, and weigh it. 
• Fill the spool with Playdoh to simulate a spool full of line.
• Remove the Playdoh from the spool and weigh it.
• Divide the weight of the spool-filling playdoh by the weight of the cubic inch.  Would give you cubic inches of spool capacity, right?

At the end of the day I'm just a guy posting on the Internet

[Bill B]

That much I got.....makes sense to me, but hen again I didn't " stay at a holiday inn express" last night  . Bill

[Decker]

That much I got.....makes sense to me, but hen again I didn't " stay at a holiday inn express" last night  . Bill

Trying to decode this, Bill... but I suspect you're making fun of me   That's what I get for suggesting to use playdoh for reel calculations.  All I can figure out is that the "holiday inn express" is some reference to the PODUS.  /Joe

[sdlehr]

Joe, the Holiday Inn Express reference is to a bunch of TV commercials in which people are able to perform beyond their pay grade and knowledge abilities after having slept in one the previous night. I think Bill was making fun of himself....

Sid

[Decker]

Great, I'm sold!   Let's move on to Internationals!

[scrinch]

...But then you have to factor in that small circles tesselate with less waste than larger ones, ....

Small (uniform) circles fill an area with the same efficiency as large circles. The size of the gaps may be larger with the larger circles, but there are fewer of them. And the size of the gaps relative to the size of the circles will be the same, which in fact defines the efficiency of the tesselation. Imagine looking at a bunch of circles drawn touching each other to fill a wall. Then look at the same wall using binoculars so that the circles look bigger. Then turn the binoculars around so that the circles look smaller. The efficiency of packing didn't change because of how big the circles were from your changing perspective, just because they looked bigger or smaller. In cross section they should fill the same proportion of the available area regardless of line diameter (tightest packing would fill about 90% of the cross-sectional area of the spool).

[Tightlines667]

...But then you have to factor in that small circles tesselate with less waste than larger ones, ....

... "the efficiency of the tesselation"

Love it!

Guess the guys on that 'Forged in Fire' show were wrong when they said it would take less glue to fill the voids between many smaller pins within a pin verses a few larger pins within a pin then.

John

[oc1]

If the 90% packing (10% void) is always true then it should be possible to calculate line length when you know only spool volume and line diameter.  I'm going to try it and see.  Confounding factors would be flattening of braid and effect of the to-and-fro line leveling on packing.  But, maybe there are corrections for those too.
-steve