scored a nice International 16s

[Tightlines667]

cool. thanks amigo, i will order some of those asap



this surely its a long shot but, if there a way to change the shifter mechanism into a more modern style instead of the stock wayof "push and pull" whole handle assembly?

No.

There are advantages to the simplicity of that mechanism.  You may want to get in the habit of holding the spool while shifting, just to ensure good engagement w/o damage though.  Check the inside of the drive shaft bushing for marring too.  Polishing it up a bit, and a new pinion bearing (and even a new high speed maingear) will help make the reel feel smoother when cranking.

John

[MarkT]

There have been plenty of people wanting to convert back to the old shifting method!  I think that's something else that Cal's can do.

[steelfish]

There are advantages to the simplicity of that mechanism.  You may want to get in the habit of holding the spool while shifting, just to ensure good engagement w/o damage though.  Check the inside of the drive shaft bushing for marring too.  Polishing it up a bit, and a new pinion bearing (and even a new high speed maingear) will help make the reel feel smoother when cranking.

John

As always thanks for those tips

There have been plenty of people wanting to convert back to the old shifting method!  I think that's something else that Cal's can do.

Seems like Im bit spoiled by the shifter on the fathom and TLD

I have used my intl 50s so In bit new to this shifter method, I just need to get used to it more

[alantani]

it would be a good 60 pound reel with 18 pounds of drag at strike.  not sure if you could fish it with an 80 pound topshot and 24 pounds of drag at strike.  the 16 vsx will reach that range easily.  you might be able to monkey with the bellevilles and get there, but it would take some time to fiddle with it and see. 

[steelfish]

thanks for your input Alan, I will order a bunch of benevilles and check that out.
if could get 18# at strike I will be a happy camper, thats the numbers where I fish my Baja Special, 15# on the fathom 40LD2.

althought, the 80# topshot is more for abrasion purposes than for strenght, big cabrillas, groupers and local YT tend to run for the rocky bottoms to scape and cut the line as butter, if you use a ligth mono or floro line for topshop the fish dont even let you prepare for the fight when the line was already cut by the rocks

[steelfish]

I was guesstimate the reel should do 12lbs strike (w/o affecting freespool), and 16lbs at full (w/o damaging the pinion).  ......  I would think 16/20lbs would be tops. ......John

it would be a good 60 pound reel with 18 pounds of drag at strike.  not sure if you could fish it with an 80 pound topshot and 24 pounds of drag at strike.  the 16 vsx will reach that range easily.  you might be able to monkey with the bellevilles and get there, but it would take some time to fiddle with it and see.  

well, I not always using the max drags on lever drag reels, (actually my fathom 40LD2 is my 1st one and normally use 15# strike which is nowhere near the max).

but Im testing this penn 16s, I havent open it yet (pretty busy these last days) but find the time to check the drag on it.
I will show you my findings, please tell me if thats the correct way to test the max drag and if Im asking for problems using the max drag on this powerhouse reel.

first I turned the preset lever until the reel barely lost freespool, then I turned back the preset lever 1/4 of turn (45*) which gave me a really nice freespool (the spool spins for 6 seconds, but bearings need a cleaning job asap), my drag readings on a scale with the reel on a rod pulling the scale spring where (attached pics).

8# drag, if the drag lever is half inch after the freespool clicker/buttom
19# drag on strike
26.5# drag on full, max

I tested the drag again, this time if the preset lever is half turn back from the mark where lost freespool.(180* backwards), which gave me a super free spool (the spool spin for 9 seconds, same deal bearings surely need a cleaning / lub job), this time these are the numbers:

4# drag, if the drag lever is half inch after the freespool clicker/buttom
15# drag on strike
21# drag on full, max


soooo, Im not sure if thats a correct way to test the max drag on a leverdrag or if I should test it as soon as reel gets the freespool back for 1 complete spin, also if I use it on that mark of max drag thats asking for a bad pinion bearing pretty soon.


I might not have the time to open the reel and service it until next weekend, but if needed I can open it, check the benevilles arrangement, etc, take some pics and close it.

[Tightlines667]

That sounds pretty good to me. 

Your second test with the preset backed off 1/2 turn is probably a good measure of where your max drag w/o lost of freespool is at.  I check by ensuring the spoolhas no movement when cranking the handle when in freespool.  Another way to gain confidence that you will not be damaging components when fishing that setting, is to try cranking while holding the spool steady at strike and at max.  Any felt grinding is bad.

John

[steelfish]

That sounds pretty good to me. 

I check by ensuring the spoolhas no movement when cranking the handle when in freespool. ..
John

now that what I was looking for, thanks for the tip John

[steelfish]

well, I finally have the time to go though a deep cleaning service to my penn 16s
it did really need one, the previous owner seem to dont care much of it, I got it Alantanized, yamaha grease here and there, packed the sideplate bearings, opened and cleaned the spool bearings and put 321 oil, grease under the reel stand and screws, so I wont post tons of pics of the service, just some of the particular issues I found on mine.






at the end I slaped some grease on the spool bearings for added protection, I dont plan to cast this reel so its all good



handle screw was so badly corroded that half of the screw head got desintegrated on the first push with the flat screwdriver, I had to take my dremel and take the rest of the screw head to take out the handle lock plate, there was some corrosion under the lock plate but the handle arm is soo thick that it will still work pretty good, the handle wont came easily, so remember to add some grease on the shaft to avoid this same issue.







the benevilles were ugly corroded as you can see and the spool shaft looked bad too when I took them out from the spool.


good thing found that the corrosion was only on the benevilles, the spool shaft got cleaned really good, that stainless steel material is goooood (picture dont show, but it got a mirror shine clean)



the shaft sleeve got sanded a bit (this worked wonders on my 50s reel) as well it was the gear stud, this last one went from a dark color to a shiny stainless steel chrome, the result was a really smooth crank on the handle.







this reel needed some new parts as new benevilles, a new pinion bearing (it felt good, but it had some surface corrosion so I discarted it), some shims, so I ordered some benevilles for the penn 16s, 16vs and 16vsx, new drag spring and shims for the 16vsx to play different configurations set ups, when got them I found out that benevilles for the 16vs and 16vxs and shims didnt fit on the 16s spool shaft, gladly I ordered a new set of benevilles for the 16s size, days later I got a package with 30 shims of 10mm with different widths to play with (from an RC car source)



the original width of the beneville stack was 5.69mm and the configuration was ()(), drag was 19#strike / 26.5# full before losing free spool, the freespool time was 6 seconds.



I tried way too different benevilles configuration as John suggested and I must say I learned a lot on how the benevilles affect the drag curve, max drag , etc on level drag reel doing this excercise, until I found a configuration that gave me enough drag on strike and max with still plenty freespool and the drag lever didnt felt that hard to reach FULL drag mark.

my benevilles configuration on which I stayed was |(())(
a .3mm shim with 5 stock benevilles, the final width was 5.77mm, drag numbers are  23# strike / 28#full before losing freespool (I think my max drag was more but I stopped there cuz I felt that my testing rod was about to break), and freespool time was 9 seconds (this was with the preset knob backed off 90* from losing freespool).




but since the handle felt kind of hard to cranck on FULL in hight speed with those numbers, I decided to moved the  preset knob a bit back to an estimate of 145-150* backed off from losing freespool (almost half turn backed off, 180*), that gave me 12 seconds freespool, 19# strike/ 22# just pass the strike bump/ 26# full, but the best of it, is that you can cranck the handle easily and smooth at FULL mark while in hight speed, if you switch to low speed on that same specs you can even turn the handle with your pinkie finger, so this is it, it wont be settle to fight monsters but plenty of power for my fishing zones.
I will used it as my dedicated trolling reel, its too heavy to use it for drop loop for long time or yoyo, thats where my Baja Special comes handy, but the low speed on the 16s is always appreciated.

I dont know if I want to use a reel with 28# or more without using harnesses, Im not a strong guy so, 28# drag was really hard to pull from the scale with my rod, I cannot imagine figthing a fish at 28-30# for long time,  I will use the reel on the mark with the  preset knob almost half turn backed off from losing free spool, thats 19# strike or just passing the "strike" mark with 22# and still have some drag as spare if need it.

this made me test my fathom 40LD2 which on specs have 28s/40f drag, but the drag lever felt harder to move to full with 20# strike than how it feels with the 16s, this might be because of the new benevilles confifuration, I dont know if I ever want to use the fathom with 25-28 at strike and if the lever will still be able to be moved to full easily, I will test that later, for now I feel pretty happy with the 16s and cant wait to try it fishing with a nice fish.

[Tightlines667]

Nice work!

Great job on that reel, and the explanation!

Once you take the time to go through the reel tuning process with the Bellevilles, it gives you a whole new appreciation for their function.  You should now have the skills needed to perform the 'poor man's blueprint', as I like to call it, on any lever drag.  

It is very helpful to have the posted info on the stack heights, and drag numbers for this reel.  Wish we had a list of stock Belleville configurations, heights, and the resulting drag curves for all of the different International reel models.  This would be an invaluable resource in my honest opinion.

Thanks for the write up!

John

[thorhammer]

Alex. GREAT write-up. I need to go back in my Gen 1 30's. I serviced them this spring but experienced some of the same binding. I though maybe the drags but I recall the bellevilles weren't in the best shape, probably 35 years old. I'll order up a batch and go to work.


John

[steelfish]

Once you take the time to go through the reel tuning process with the Bellevilles, it gives you a whole new appreciation for their function.  You should noe have the skills needed to perform the 'poor man's blueprint', as I like to call it, on any lever drag. 

John

John, I really appreciated your words specially coming from you, Im the one that must say Thank you to you amigo, you are right, after the "intensive express trainning" I have on one night I now understand how this part of the reels (benevilles) play an important role on LD reels, I must have taken the reel apart to change the benevilles configuration 10 times easily on the same night.
I wanted to stop at 1am and continue the next day but I wasnt happy with the results I was having so, I say to myself, myself just one more try just one more configuration, take that reel, open it again and think a new setup!! so, I did it  .
well, that really ended up making me tried like 5 more configurations until I ended up choosing one of the many the configurations I tried and put it again to called it a day and with a big smile at 3:45am 

the shims play an important role too to make fine tunes on the drag curve, this reel model have none on the stock setup





JOhn (thor), I say get some new benevilles, new shims, maybe a new drag spring and go for it.

[alantani]

i just finished a friend's 16S.  beautiful reel!

[steelfish]

thanks Alan for posting that one with the Tib frame, it looks really good and clean.

Im plan on using the reel 3-4 times, if I really like it as much as for keeping it for long then I'll go for the tib frame and get new parts that are pitted just for the looks, I already have the 5/0 Tani knob waiting to be installed 

can I ask on what drag readings did you setup the reel for your friend?

[alantani]

30% of line weight, or 18 pounds at strike.