alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial scored a nice International 16s
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
December 14, 2017, 06:41:12 PM *
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Author Topic: scored a nice International 16s  (Read 2089 times)
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steelfish
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« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2017, 05:40:01 PM »

great, its good to know compadre Alan, I will be fishing mine on 19# strike

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Alto Mare
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« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2017, 05:50:50 PM »

Good job on that reel Alex and nice pics as well.

Sal
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« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2017, 06:41:52 PM »

Alan,  just would like to know. To get 18 lbs at strike did you leave the Belleville arrangement stock ()()? 
This has been a great thread!
Thanks,
Mike grosman.
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alantani
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« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2017, 08:06:16 PM »

No, I had to change it to "(())".
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« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2017, 09:58:34 PM »

No, I had to change it to "(())".

Didnt you lost some mm of the total size width of the beneville stack?

Mine was 5.69mm stock width ()()
and went to 4.81mm width at (())

Even with five benevilles at (())) it was 5.29mm and my max drag was 21# & strike was 16# too low for my liking.

Its important to say that new benevilles I got for 16s from scotts were thinner than originals,
The new benevilles were 5.52mm on ()() so, some shims were necessary to reach the beneville factory width size, once I reached factory width then  I played with different configurations
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« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2017, 04:37:15 AM »

i did lose some width, but it worked out just fine.  for your reel, the thinner bellevilles will give you a lower drag range no matter what you do. 
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« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2017, 09:53:17 AM »

i did lose some width, but it worked out just fine.  for your reel, the thinner bellevilles will give you a lower drag range no matter what you do. 

Your totally right Alan, which not surprised me of curse.

I found out exactly what you said on my many configurations try outs

In order to get a nice drag Curve and at max with a smooth cranck,  I have to use two of the original benevilles (just clean them good with a steel brush) since they give better preasure.

So there were 3 new benevilles (thin) and two originals ones (thick) at my final configuration

Two of the original benevilles were really pitted by corrosion but seemed to work good, but there were another two that have only surface corrosion and those were  the ones I used.

Im always learning, thanks for your feedback
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Tightlines666
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« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2017, 12:28:48 PM »

Always good to have some thin and thick ones available.  Different reel models have different tolerances for variations in stsck height.  The older internationals have quite a bit of wiggle room here. 

If the stack gets too tall, you will lose preset adjustment, and you may have clearance issues with the clicker pawl and retainer, and may lose freespool function. 

Conversely, if your stack is too short, you may run into clearance issues with the low speed gear and ratchet plate, and with the spool shaft and tailplate.  You can also lose  freespool functionality. 

As a broad generalization, the older reels typically use softer configurations, with thinner washers, resulting in more linear curves, and lower max drags.  While more modern models, often use thicker washers with stronger configurations, resulting in more agressive drag curves, and higher max drags.

Bellevilles are only part of the equation here though, and the shape if the cam ramp is actually more influential in determining the drag curve.  The drag spring is also part of the equation.  This spring compresses in a linear fashion though, so it really determines at what setting the drag will start to engage.  A heavier spring will require more pressure to allow the drag to engage.

Shims can be used to maintain spacing along the spool shaft, to maintain proper clearances of the various reel components, or to account for wear.  You can shim the Belleville stsck to maintain its height.  You can shim at the left spool bearing, and tailplate bearing to account for drag plate/disc wear, or to move the spool to the right (relative to the spool shaft).  Shimming at the pinion bearing will decrease your preset, and move the shaft, spool and related components to the left.

You can also shim under the main gear(s), or under the handle in order to tighten up and drive shaft play.  And shims can be used on the clicker parts to account for wear, or maintain functionality at max drag settings, with taller Belleville stacks.

With shimming, less is more.  Don't shim unless it is needed, and use the least amount if shims needed to get the clearance you need, ir proper functionality.

Some lever drag reels have a lot of wiggle room, and will continue to function just fine as components wear or corrode, while others are very sensitive to changes is spacing and need new parts and/or shimming more frequently.  These older internationals fall in to the former category. 

You really don't need to over think this stuff either.  If you want a steeper curve, with more max drag, try thicker Bellevilles and stiffer/harder configuration.  If the change works, and there are no issues with functionality or obvious clearance issues, use it.   

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steelfish
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« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2017, 10:51:43 AM »


Some lever drag reels have a lot of wiggle room, and will continue to function just fine as components wear or corrode, while others are very sensitive to changes is spacing and need new parts and/or shimming more frequently.  These older internationals fall in to the former category


now wonder it was a good reel to learn the uses of benevilles for rookies like me
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« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2017, 10:53:05 AM »

tight tolerances are not always a good thing.   Undecided
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« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2017, 10:00:37 AM »

Well guys.  A BIG THANK YOU to John, Steelfish, and of course Alan.  Picked up a nice International 16 a little bit ago.  I do have a 30sw that I love, but It is a bit heavy for holding in hand for any length of time.  Still, these old pens are built so rugged and I can get them in the price range I like.  I Bought this one recently.  Cleaned It up, replaced some bearings.  Put on one of Alanís handles I repurposed.  Next Iíll get some line on I have stored around here, 65 lb braid, and work on the drag to hopefully get It to around 18-20lb at strike.  I canít wait to get a chance to use it!!  Thanks again guys,  without your help I wouldnít be able to do all this.  What a great site!
Mike Grosman


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redsetta
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« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2017, 11:53:26 AM »

Great thread lads - and terrific work Alex.
Looking forward to seeing it put to the test!
Cheers, Justin
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« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2017, 11:55:54 AM »

Is it a lefty or mounted backwards?  Dominick
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« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2017, 12:07:09 PM »

Its a righty.  The butt  of the rod is in the distance, Iím at the tiptop.   Not the best photographer🤔
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« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2017, 12:24:19 PM »

Mounted on a Fenwick Pacificstik!
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