Estate Sale 30SW Question

[thunnus69]

I scored an international 30 "TW"at an estate sale.  It was listed "30TW as is".  I immediately noticed the spacer plate and thought Cal had a hand in this.  Brought her home and cracked her open.  Cal initialed the inside "2 92 60 CPS".  Inside was  greased well including all screw.  He two speeded it and judging from the additional washers he blueprinted it.  There was no sleeve.  I noticed there was no ht100 drag and I'm curious if anyone can tell me what material the drag is.  Thanks in advance.

[alantani]

i've seen these old composite materials before.  i don't know what they're made of - maybe asbestos or something.  i always replace them.  they always get sticky.   

[Dominick]

Good score Thunnus.  Dominick

[Tightlines667]

i've seen these old composite materials before.  i don't know what they're made of - maybe asbestos or something.  i always replace them.  they always get sticky.  

X2...
This is the gen 2 Asbestos composite washers.  I would upgrade to the HT-100 washer (4th generation).  

Here is what you want...

https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6A-30.aspx

Simply remove 4 screws, and the old washer, replace with new one and same screws.  Blue loctite here is a good idea.

The other minor CO iteration is the old drag plates had 4 points of contact for the ar dogs (handle stops after up to 90deg handle rotation), the new plates have 12 stop points, so there is only 30 the max of handle back play.  You could upgrade to the plate as well (117-30), or go to a duradisc to improve drag function and handle back play but it will be more costly.

Make sure you check the ratchet, bearings, Bellevilles as well, so you only have to place 1 parts order.

John


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[thunnus69]

Thanks for the info.  The drag looked similar to the old donut drags only black instead of orange.  I got the reel at a good price which helps make the upgrades more affordable now.
Thanks again,
Joe

[David Hall]

What a great find.

[thunnus69]

Thanks John,
I just checked the plate and sure enough it has 12 slots for the dogs so I will save some money and simply upgrade to the ht 100 drag.  As an aside,  I find myself drawn to these older internationals even though I own  newer ones and some accurates as well.  New technology is great (I.e. My new accurate valiant) but for ease of use, and servicing, the bullet proof old internationals I think are so much better.

[Robert Janssen]

i've seen these old composite materials before.  i don't know what they're made of - maybe asbestos or something.  i always replace them.  they always get sticky.  

X2...
This is the gen 2 Asbestos composite washers.  I would upgrade to the HT-100 washer (4th generation).  

Just as sort of a by-the-way, for-what-its-worth, semi-off topic post, I contend that the drag washer in the picture is an aftermarket Smoooooth Drag disc, considered by some to be top-notch stuff back in the day.

I have pointed to this in previous posts showing pictures of similar, blue drag discs.

It surprised me to see that Scott's shows a picture of one on their website. I wonder how it got there. It made me doubt myself, or the picture.

My memory is heavily reliant on anything I have seen or read. I once saw a picture of a Smoooooth Drag disc in a magazine article in 1995 or thereabouts, about the SoCal reel tuning trade.* So, yesterday I went digging, and found the article. And there it is.

These differ from the standard Penn washers by way of besides being bright blue, having a different composition of the friction material than what Penn used. Also, they don't fit timewise: Penn started using HT-100 in 1985. As I understand it, reels made later than this had HT-100 up until 2004 or thereabouts, when they changed to the updated Dura-Drag material. So there is no room for a 30SW to have anything but HT-100 or a later aftermarket tuning part, since this model was introduced at a later date. (which could be seen by the serial number on the reel, if the OP could check)

So, the question is, what if anything am I missing here? Did Scott's buy a whole bunch of aftermarket Smoooooth Drag discs? Or was the picture simply uploaded by mistake? Did Penn use blue discs with another material at some point?

Comment, Steve, Dawn, Mo...?

Edit: On second thought, no... I don't doubt myself at all on this, but can still ask.

*I happened to bump into the guy who wrote that article a few years ago. Fun.

[thunnus69]

Good info.  Are there any other indentifying features to these drags other than them being blue in color.  Seems strange Cal would do a two speed upgrade, reconfigure the belleville washers (blueprinted?) and not upgrade the drag.  Thoughts??

[Robert Janssen]

oooohhh now I see... allow thee to smacketh thy head slightly. I see now you did in fact ask about the friction material specifically, and that the others were referring to the fourth generation, as in the type of parts used.

Well anyway, the type of friction material used by Smoooooth Drag at the time is described in the article as a blend of rubber and zinc, but that is only part of it. Composite friction materials such as this one (there are hundreds or thousands of varieties) are typically comprised of a blend of a number of ingredients like phenolic resins, metallic and / or glass flakes or fibers, natural or synthetic rubber, a dash of pepper, a pinch of dragon foot... all kinds of stuff. What exactly that one was made of and where it was used, well... who knows. Dragsters and computer drives, mmhmm. And HT-100 was used in jet planes. Right...

I actually have some of the specifics of this material --temperatures, coefficient of friction, that sort of thing-- sent to me by Dawn, like twenty-odd years ago, but I don't think it is really relevant here.  

The material previously used by Penn, which is often called asbestos here on this forum, is also a typical composite, as found in the auto industry for example. Whether or not it actually contained asbestos I don't know, but if so it would be as part of a recipe as mentioned above. (actually asbestos was considered a fantastic friction material, and still is. Perhaps if one could have pursued and developed it further, it could have performed as well as HT-100 or similar current carbon fiber materials.)

Seems strange Cal would do a two speed upgrade, reconfigure the belleville washers (blueprinted?) and not upgrade the drag.  Thoughts??

Well at the time, the Smoooooth Drag disc was considered an upgrade. He didn't put it in there for nuthin'.
Whether or not it actually was, well... He sure thought so. I myself have never seen any material perform as well as HT-100 and their siblings, but I wasn't there, and that isn't part of the question either.

Are there any other indentifying features to these drags other than them being blue in color

Yeah... fragrance, or bouquet. But you have to be reeeaaally into it.
That, and that as far as I know nobody else made aftermarket discs.

.

[mizmo67]

So, the question is, what if anything am I missing here? Did Scott's buy a whole bunch of aftermarket Smoooooth Drag discs? Or was the picture simply uploaded by mistake? Did Penn use blue discs with another material at some point?

Comment, Steve, Dawn, Mo...?

Edit: On second thought, no... I don't doubt myself at all on this, but can still ask.

*I happened to bump into the guy who wrote that article a few years ago. Fun.

Misidentified.  It came in a batch of NOS labeled as a Penn part, so that's where the photo came from.


I can't find the darned blue one so that I can relabel it correctly online....It's not in the 30tw parts


Somewhere on my shelf there's a bag of unmarked Smoothies, too, but those I recognized.

[Robert Janssen]

Ah, yes... thought so. Thanks, now I can sleep at night.  :-)

Its in the 50s section, here:

https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6/1-50.aspx

.

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[mizmo67]

Ah, yes... thought so. Thanks, now I can sleep at night.  :-)

Its in the 50s section, here:

https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/6/1-50.aspx

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

Thank you!

I'll leave it there because it at least represents that generation, but I can mark it as Smoothdrag to clear the confusion.
I did think the blue color was odd, lol

[thunnus69]

Thanks again for the info.  My HT 100 arrived yesterday from Scott.