alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Rod Rebuild - Attempt at Spiral Wrapping (before i spend real money)
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
December 15, 2017, 11:23:10 PM *
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Author Topic: Rod Rebuild - Attempt at Spiral Wrapping (before i spend real money)  (Read 1085 times)
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sundancer
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« on: August 24, 2017, 10:22:40 AM »

I have a very old ~5.5' beater fiberglass Boat Rod (even the Reel Seat is suspect).  Guides are busted.

Before I spend any money, I thought I would take what is left of the Guides off, rummage though my box of tricks, and attempt to Spiral Wrap.  If it turns out reasonably decent, I will do it on a Rod really worth saving with proper supplies.

Now, understanding the rules, is there any magic in doing this?  Any math when clocking the Guides?  Minimum number of Guides?  Direction of rotation preferred?  Any thoughts are always appreciated.

Thanks
Steve
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thorhammer
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"You can't drank all day if you don't start..."


« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2017, 10:45:09 AM »

Typically rotate clockwise. how long is blank above reel seat? also governed by arc of flex of the rod under load, but I would use at least six guides total, transiting in two. Meaning, stripper at 12 o'clock, first offset at 200, second at four, and then last three or four (depending on flexibility) at 600 (180 degrees from start, on the underside of rod.  Typically a boat probably is stiff enough and short enough six guides will do, definitely as practice round. good call.

Key point, if you are doing a rebuild from seat up, it's likely the rod wasn't splined to true (spline 180 degrees from reel on conventional rod) before assembly so you may have a funny roll under load anyway.


hope that helps, or maybe was just confusing lol

John
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sundancer
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2017, 10:48:37 AM »

John

not confusing at all - understand what you wrote..  I will have to measure the Rod..  This is one of those old 2 piece Boat Rods with the wooden handle/Metal Ferrules joining the Fiberglass..  the ones that you had as a kid and that would stick together..

Thanks
Steve
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 10:51:37 AM by sundancer » Logged

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Steve-O
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2017, 10:50:36 AM »

Here ya go!

I have re-wrapped many of my rods this way.

To me it's the only way to go for conventional reel rods.

http://www.acidrod.com/files/degreewheel_wInstructions.pdf
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sundancer
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2017, 10:53:03 AM »

hahaha - going to print that out Steve-O.. 

just the Ticket..

S
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Steve-O
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2017, 10:56:32 AM »

And don't forget this bit of intel: The direction you spiral your guides depends on which side of the reel the crank is.

The spiral should always twist away from your cranking hand.

This causes the rod to balance out when under a load, due to the fact that the fish is applying slightly heavier pressure to the side the guides are twisting and

you’re naturally applying pressure to the side you’re cranking on.
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Steve-O
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2017, 10:58:32 AM »

So for me fishing with spinning reels, I use left hand retrieve, however with conventional reels I use right hand retrieve.

All my acid wrap rod guides go COUNTER-clockwise.

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sundancer
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2017, 11:11:07 AM »

AHH

so with this Conventional-Reel Boat Rod, I will have to wrap counterclockwise..

good to know..

S
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Steve-O
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2017, 11:17:25 AM »

AHH

so with this Conventional-Reel Boat Rod, I will have to wrap counterclockwise..

good to know..

S

Yes, IF your reel is right hand retrieve.

Otherwise John - Thorhammer - is right saying clockwise....which is correct for left hand wind.

This is what counters the winding torque.

I can have a heavy fish on and open the non-winding, rod holding hand with the foregrip resting on my palm and there's ZERO twist because the line is pulling down from underneath the rod blank once it gets past the guide rotation from the top around to the bottom.

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sundancer
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2017, 11:29:45 AM »

MMMM (confused look)

I understand the thought of countering the 'torque' of reeling in with the wrap, but I challenge the truth a little..

I would think that by the time the Line leaves the Rod, it has been running 'parallel' to the Rod for quite awhile.  There isn't any twisting of the Rod at this point; after the first few Guides that pull the Line under the Blank..

Thoughts??
Steve
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Newell Nut
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« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2017, 11:47:20 AM »

Follow Steve's advice. If you crank with right hand then spiral to the left. All of my customs are done this way and it works. The stripper guide needs to be to the left a few degrees too and not straight up at 0 degrees. The calculator in acid rod can help you with spacing also.
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Steve-O
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« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2017, 12:08:11 PM »

MMMM (confused look)

I understand the thought of countering the 'torque' of reeling in with the wrap, but I challenge the truth a little..

I would think that by the time the Line leaves the Rod, it has been running 'parallel' to the Rod for quite awhile.  There isn't any twisting of the Rod at this point; after the first few Guides that pull the Line under the Blank..

Thoughts??
Steve

No rocket or rod scientist here....BUT ...it works!

You could even simulate it with any two piece rod.

Add an overhead reel, run line through the guides, twist the tip end of the rod 180 and tie the line to a static point or very heavy weight.

Crank down the drag nice and snug and lift.

Then hold the rod against your leg or stomach and open the rod holding hand and push the reel sideways with the other hand.

On a proper spiral wrapped rod the reel will stand proud and not flip over.

Just a like a spinning reel with all the guides under the rod won't flip over upside down, reel up.

It may not simulate EXACTLY like a spiral wrap but close enough.

I thought it was weird at first and am a firm believer now.

Another key thing is know how to "spine" your blank...especially if it is a two piece.


You have to get that part right with any rod building project.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 12:09:20 PM by Steve-O » Logged
Steve-O
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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2017, 12:11:24 PM »

Follow Steve's advice. If you crank with right hand then spiral to the left. All of my customs are done this way and it works. The stripper guide needs to be to the left a few degrees too and not straight up at 0 degrees. The calculator in acid rod can help you with spacing also.

Thanks for chiming in, Dwight.

Steve, look around a bit and you will see some of Dwight's fantastic rod builds...including some acid wraps.
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thorhammer
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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2017, 01:09:22 PM »

Steve, love the compass jig. I'm using it.

What Steve and Dwight are saying about counter clockwise makes sense to me; I had mimicked a commercial rod where that was probably not thought through. I'll be doing that on any future acid wrap (I have one IP and one on deck for Mike Pate).

On your tomato stake trial run, it is what is, most likely, but you may be able to rotate fore end to true spine once you strip it. Def spline your new build though.
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philaroman
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« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2017, 09:54:17 PM »

don't mean to hijack, but I'm sorta' on the subject Smiley

I have an absolutely horrible Cabela's 10' M Salmon/Steelhead that I have to flip over & reel backwards & curse the trigger, even for smaller fish (obviously, built on the same blank as their corresponding Spinning 10' M)...  when flipped, the tip section behaves like a very nice Mod/Fast spinning rod, so I think the rod would be awesome as a spiral & want to convert it "fast & dirty"

i.e., leave the tip section completely as is & do the entire 180* switch over the 5' butt section...  about 4' from reel line guide to first guide on the tip section, which is pretty big (#10?), so I'd like to use the minimum number of same size to transition to the #12(?) stripper... any ideas on number & spacing?  (the stripper definitely should & can be moved much closer to the reel, without concerns about line angle & I understand about going clockwise for L/H retrieve)

thanks for any ideas
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