Some truths I learned about knots over time.

[japeto]

Greetings,

I'm a saltwater fisherman, offshore mostly, with about 5 years experience but no where near expert. Been fascinated by knots since I started, I guess because it's one of the main things I can measurably improve upon even when not fishing.  Also, I'm hardheaded, so I tended to not heed advice given to me by seasoned fishers.  Made a lot of knot mistakes and lost a lot of fish, but the bright side is that I almost everything I know has been confirmed by direct personal experience.  So, for the less hardheaded folks out there, I thought I'd start a thread to help you avoid some knot-related incidents.  Like they say, if this helps one person then it's worth it.  I would be grateful if others would share their insights.  If this has already been done, please delete. Also, sorry if I'm it seems like I'm stating the obvious. So here goes.

- Be skeptical of knots that are claimed to hold 100% of RATED line strength. Most lines I've used are underrated so a knot that breaks at 100% of line rating is ok, but how impressive is that when the ACTUAL breaking strength is 25% higher than the rated strength.

- Using terminal connections (hooks, swivels, jigs, etc.) with an OD equal to or greater than the line usually results in stronger knots. The bends are not as sharp, so there's less stress.  

- Running the line through the terminal twice instead of just once usually results in stronger knots.

- A slow, well-tied knot will usually hold better and catch more fish than a fast, poorly tied knot.

- Use the knots YOU tie well, not the ones everyone else is tying, possibly poorly.

- Trust the results and experiences of others but VERIFY them for yourself.  Remember, fishermen may exaggerate from time to time. You may go nuts trying to achieve the results others CLAIM they got.  

- If a fish takes any drag whatsoever, retie your knot when the fight is over.  

- Drag is the line's first line of defense.  You may not even need the so-called "best knot" if you drag is set right.  

Ok, that's my lot.  Who else can add constructive information regarding knots?

[Tightlines667]

Wet or lubricate the knot prior to tightening.  

Pay close attention to how the line lays as it is being tightened.  

Use the correct amount of pressure for the line type and size when tightening.  

Pay attention to tag end length.  

When learning to the a given knot on a given tackle type, examine your final product for weakness, damage, etc... and don't be afraid to test it to failure.  I like to test swivels too.  A sharp quick burst or spike pressure, will cause the knot to behave differently then slow steady increasing pressure, and cyling will affect it differently still.  When you have failures, examine the remaining bits to see where/how it failed.  Did it unravel or come untied, or did the line break?  Where/how did it break?  Did it stretch and break, or just part cleanly?  Also, notice how springy or stiff a given knot is.  This same advice can be extended to crimping, swaging, or alternative line connections as well.  

Learn what works, and how to repeat it consistently.

John

[Bill B]

JA and John....all good information....I've been fishing since I was knee high to a grasshopper, but It is always good to go back to the basics and re-learn what you "forgot".....Bill

[Swami805]

I think the key with knots is to learn 3 or 4 good knots that you can tie consistently that cover your needs to the point that they become 2nd nature. Confidence in what you're doing will lead to getting the most out of your tackle and equipment. And always wet the line when dressing the note.

[Benni3]

Wet your knots and when tightening,,,if you see them turn white,,, it got hot cut off start over 

[Gfish]

Knots made odda mono line with alota "wrap overs" can crease the line, possibly weakening it. As John & Benni3 stated, lube the line before cinching it, cinch slowly several times with increasing pressure each time, then check for creasing, especially the section just above the knot.

I use a clinch knot, where I wrap twice around the terminal, twist only 3-4 times, bring tag end through both terminal-wrap loops, then put a granny on the tag(to prevent slippage) and don't tighten too much(let the fish yer about to catch do it).

Also a split ring on the terminal can increase light-lure action and prevent excess knot wear.
Gfish

[Three se7ens]

Wet or lubricate the knot prior to tightening.  

Pay close attention to how the line lays as it is being tightened.  

Use the correct amount of pressure for the line type and size when tightening.  

Pay attention to tag end length.  

When learning to the a given knot on a given tackle type, examine your final product for weakness, damage, etc... and don't be afraid to test it to failure.  I like to test swivels too.  A sharp quick burst or spike pressure, will cause the knot to behave differently then slow steady increasing pressure, and cyling will affect it differently still.  When you have failures, examine the remaining bits to see where/how it failed.  Did it unravel or come untied, or did the line break?  Where/how did it break?  Did it stretch and break, or just part cleanly?  Also, notice how springy or stiff a given knot is.  This same advice can be extended to crimping, swaging, or alternative line connections as well.  

Learn what works, and how to repeat it consistently.

John

Good point, I have seen many "80 lb" swivels straighten out when the drag never got above 20 lbs.  Most didnt fail, but were promptly replaced. 

Most fishing knots will hold close to the line rating in mono, but that is not the case for braid.  There are only a handful of knots that hold strongly and reliably with braid. 

[boon]

Keep an open mind about knots. Like all things, they are constantly developed and improved on.

The knots everyone swore by when I started fishing (improved cinch, back-to-back uni and albright for joining lines) are old hat now; FG, PR and AG Chain knots make them look weak. I have relegated the improved clinch to tying on sinkers these days. I still use a uni knot where strength isn't critical, though.

Most fishing knots will hold close to the line rating in mono, but that is not the case for braid.  There are only a handful of knots that hold strongly and reliably with braid. 

Simple solution: only ever tie an FG or PR knot in your braid, to join it to a mono leader. These knots are known to be close to 100% when tied properly. Then tie whatever knot you want in the braid.

Tying braid to terminal tackle is a fools errand unless fishing very heavy lines. The thinness of braid makes it readily cut into itself.

[ijlal]

Most of the new knots are quite unforgiving if not tied properly. I was always comfortable tying tying braid to mono using a 30-turn Albright, and it may break at 70% of line strength, I never lost a fish because of that. Recently converted to the FG knot and immediately lost a nice fish. Now I tighten the join with all my might after wrapping the braid over rubber grips of pliers/cutters BEFORE cutting the tag end of the mono (leader.) Now that is something they do not tell you in the tutorials. If you do it as they show in youtube videos, your FG knot will most certainly give way on a good fish!

Always test the knot punishingly before fishing it - better to break it on the boat or land than with a fish of a lifetime.

[Benni3]

Most of the new knots are quite unforgiving if not tied properly. I was always comfortable tying tying braid to mono using a 30-turn Albright, and it may break at 70% of line strength, I never lost a fish because of that. Recently converted to the FG knot and immediately lost a nice fish. Now I tighten the join with all my might after wrapping the braid over rubber grips of pliers/cutters BEFORE cutting the tag end of the mono (leader.) Now that is something they do not tell you in the tutorials. If you do it as they show in youtube videos, your FG knot will most certainly give way on a good fish!

Always test the knot punishingly before fishing it - better to break it on the boat or land than with a fish of a lifetime.

I have missed some nice fish,,,,knots, old stock florocarben,,,bad hooks 

[oc1]

I have a love/hate relationship with the FG knot.  Never lost a fish but have had several start to unravel.  Right now I'm tying FG with a glob.  The tag end is trimmed a little long; maybe 3/16 inch.  I hold the knot with only the tag end sticking out between thumb and forefinger and melt the end into a glob with a lighter.  If I don't burn my fingers then the line could not have become hot enough to do damage.  Then I throw half hitches all the way up to and over the glob.  So far, so good, but only time will tell.
-steve

[STRIPER LOU]

I use a bunch of different knots both old and new. The lube and drawing them up slowly as others have mentioned is very important.

I'm also using a drop of good quality super glue to finish it up. The combination of a good knot and a little dab of glue has worked very well for me over the years.

.................Lou

[boon]

I have a love/hate relationship with the FG knot.  Never lost a fish but have had several start to unravel.  Right now I'm tying FG with a glob.  The tag end is trimmed a little long; maybe 3/16 inch.  I hold the knot with only the tag end sticking out between thumb and forefinger and melt the end into a glob with a lighter.  If I don't burn my fingers then the line could not have become hot enough to do damage.  Then I throw half hitches all the way up to and over the glob.  So far, so good, but only time will tell.
-steve

This is the "safe" way to tie them - as I'm sure you've worked out, if the wraps slip off the end of the mono the whole knot will fall apart.

Currently I tie mine with 25-30 wraps, pulling tight after every 5 or 6. The first half hitch after the wraps needs to be pulled down hard against the wraps; I tie 4 alternating half-hitches around both the mono and braid, then 4 around just the braid, with a 2-turn rizzuto to finish it. Pull the knot HARD before clipping the tag ends; the braid/mono should change colour at the base of the knot as it "bites".

Using this method I've broken off 100lb leader without the knot failing, so I have a lot of confidence in it.

EDIT: When tieing the half-hitches it is vital that the main line remain straight with the half hitches winding around it; if the half-hitches cause the main to kink I believe it hugely weakens the knot.

[happyhooker]

Lou beat me to the idea of Super Glue.  Especially on a knot like a snell or the loop for same.

I, too, like knots that go thru the terminal or hook eye twice, which is why I favor the Palomar & Double Uni.

Loops cause me trouble sometime.  I can tie the Canoeman's easy, but it seems to unravel, so I usually end up with a Double Surgeon's.

Frank

[festus]

l'll be happy when l can perfect a snell knot - - - takes me about 4 tries to get one correct.