Abu Garcia Veritas Line Guide Replacement

Started by Jim Dempsey, September 28, 2017, 09:45:11 PM

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Jim Dempsey

Newbie question; so go easy on me.

I have 2 Abu Garcia Veritas VRTCW711-8 14-30lb line rated bait casting rods with one or more broken line guides. It was a known issue with the series where the line guide inserts either broke, or popped out. I replaced them with Villains - same length, action, etc. I love the Veritas rods actions, etc, but the Villians use micro- guides, which gives me more precision. Laying them out side by side; the line guides match space wise, almost perfectly.

The rods are essentially useless, but I can't bear to toss them since they're under a year old. What are the chances of removing the old guides and replacing them with Fuji (or similar) SiC guides - preferably, micro guides? I know the type and dimension of the Villain guides, so I could order a very nice set for around $80.00 per rod.

A big concern would be cosmetics. I can / have removed a couple of the guides without damaging the rods. I'm also not concerned about placing them, wiring them,  and properly aligning them. But; how would I make the attachments look nice? The current ones have a gloss black coating over the wire wrapping that makes them look nice and professional. Any way to achieve this?

Any reasonable way to do any of this?

Thanks for any suggestions - especially any that say: "Hey; I wouldn't do that if I were you!" Any "Crash and burn" stories? I'd sure like to save them, but I'm not going to bank the farm on something that is improbable.

boon

They aren't wrapped with wire (unless I'm very much mistaken??); it's binding cotton.
Then the gloss black protective coating is an epoxy.
Have a read of some of the rodbuilding sites on the internet, they will get you going in the right direction.

To be honest, if you want the rods to look professional, I would have a shop or an experienced hobbyist do it for you. My local fishing shop has replaced a few guides for me and you cannot even tell that the rods are not original.

Jim Dempsey

Good advice. Just don't know who would / could do the best job. I live in hell, TX so my choices are limited before it doesn't pass the financial sanity test. I replaced one on the first rod and used braid and hot melt to secure the guide, and black fingernail polish to top it off. You have to look close to tell, but I want it to look great if I'm going to drop that kind of cash.

I tried talking to someone at Mudhole, but it seemed like they were more interested in selling me rod building equipment, so I bailed on them. If I could find the black epoxy coating for the thread, I could likely do a pretty decent job. I used a hot air pencil on the hot melt to form it while I turned the rod. That part looked great. It's held up fantastically.

Thanks!

Swami805

Shouldn't be hard to get done if you can find a local rod builder. I think it's just one layer of black thread and epoxy. I usually get about $15 a guide including a new guide unless they're something pricey.
To Stripe them off warm them up with a heat gun and cut thru the thread on top off the guide foot, then carefully remove remove the remaining wrap.
Lots of helpful info on here or on other sites on how too stuff. Just fix the broken guides and fish it.
SIC won't help you much durability A little stronger that what's on there but they'll crack too if you thwack them.
Do what you can with that you have where you are

oc1

The epoxy will last a lot longer than the hot melt and is easy to apply.  The epoxy is clear but shows the color of the underlying thread. 

I would never pay someone to do what can be learned easily and inexpensively.  The lathe and all the fancy stuff saves a lot of time, but you can do a fine job wrapping with the rod in your lap if you go slow.  Apply epoxy with the rod laid across some cardboard boxes and use very thin coats so you get by without much turning as it cures.
-steve

Jim Dempsey

#5
Thank for the great advice. After a little more research, I see that Abu rods use Zirconium inserts, except for their highest end roads that use Alconite. On another forum; I also read that unless you're using metal leaders; you really don't need SiC inserts and that the majority of people can get by for a lifetime with Alconite. So; that looks like the direction I'm headed in that respect.

The wrapping doesn't intimidate me, as I did it before with some #30 braid and it's held up like a rock. I used Gorilla Glue hot melt sticks to secure the "thread" and it's hard as a rock. But; will definitely use epoxy when I under take this. Do you have a recommendation for a manufacturer of the epoxy? And; I'm assuming that you can mix it in varying thicknesses, so I can apply the thin coats? Also; any suggested suppliers for the guides, epoxy, or both?

Next question that begs an answer: Can I duplicate the micro guide arrangement that's on the Villain since the rods are so similar?

Now I'm getting fired up about this project. I really appreciate the info and advice.

oc1

#6
I have reverted to vintage and rustic tackle and make guides of soft german silver.  They won't last a lifetime but I haven't worn one out yet.  

I never liked epoxy and stayed with Weber varnish and color preserver until reverting to the even older shellac and kiln burnt pine tar. I think epoxy is sold in different thicknesses but you'll have to confirm that with modern rod builders.  For boat building you can cut epoxy a little with acetone but that may not be good enough for rod building.

The jerks at Mud Hole and Get Bit Outdoors have a wide selection of stuff, but they're still jerks.

-steve

Jim Dempsey

Thanks for the input. That's a fright! I thought I was the only one left on earth that favored shellac or varnish! Building my own guides is out of my league, but woodworking isn't. Definitely something to consider. Nothing much more beautiful than walnut stained with orange shellac.

About to start looking for some guides, and will formulate a plan. If it makes sense; I'll go for it.

Thanks for all of the help and advice!

Swami805

If you run into a problem shoot me a PM and I'll see if I can get you thru it. I've used anglers workshop for a few decades and nothing but good results, give them a try. Sheridan
Do what you can with that you have where you are

Jim Dempsey

I've run into so many similarities between myself and other members in just one week; I think I'm living in some altered universe. That's exactly who I found (and liked the site) between the numerous Butt Hole, and Get Bent Outdoors.  This is getting freaky.

Thank you so much for the offer. I just got home, so will probably wait until tomorrow to surf the site and figure out what I think will work best. I'll definitely run it past the board before proceeding.

Thanks!

Jim Dempsey

#10
OK; been studying it as best able - through all of the hype and confusion - as well as my lack of knowledge. More question than answers or ideas.

First; my understanding is that Fuji is the Gold Standard. Correct? Hype? Popular opinion? Lot's of other manufacturers. Ideas? Experiences?

Using a digital caliper; I measured the inside dimensions of the line guides as follows:

Reel to tip - Veratis: Again; all are ID dimensions.

9.0 mm - double leg. 7.5 mm double leg. 6.x (broken insert) double leg. Next 2 are single leg 5.0 mm's. The remaining are 4.0's including the tip - single leg.

Reel to tip - Villain: Ditto.

6.0 mm - double leg. Next 2 are 4.0 mm - double leg. The remaining are 3.0 mm's with a 3.0 mm tip.

I see that there are varying grades from light to medium / heavy ratings with the heavier being stainless steel - which is fine for me. There are so many different designs for so many different applications.

Any thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks!

Swami805

I don't do alot of freshwater stuff here but fuji makes good guides. I also use pacbay and a few others. If it was me and I like the way the rods fished I'd just replace what's on there and not try and reinvent the wheel. It has gotten a little out of hand with all the different styles and hype. You could spend an awful lot of money too.
Do what you can with that you have where you are

Jim Dempsey


boon

Fuji is just the big name player, personally I think Alps make really nice guides as well.

To a degree you get what you pay for, with the usual diminishing gains theory applying. I have a few rods with SiC guides and they are really really nice to fish with, but they are also only a tiny bit better than my rods with zirconium guides, for example.