Abu Garcia Ambassadeur 10000 i Chattering Noise

Started by Jim Dempsey, October 06, 2017, 09:12:25 PM

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Jim Dempsey

OK; not your everyday reel. This was a "salvage" that I rebuilt from the ground up. Boca Bearings, Carbontex drags, etc. Full Aunt Jemima treatment - to my level of experience.

The spool spins like a wild man. The action is smooth as butter. I replaced the left side plate that included the levelwind (cog?) gear. Cheap plastic. Took another's suggestion and snipped the top retainer off and installed a c-clip. Lubed it and all is well. Except, it makes a screeching, chattering noise - almost like the bait alarm is partially engaged. I removed the levelwind pawl and no noise. I replaced it and I have noise again. The worm gear is nice and shiny, but seems to have more side to side movement (more play) of the line guide than my other reels.

It casts a mile, but you can also hear it near a mile. Any ideas?

Thanks!

ReelClean

Only brainstorming here,  since you have cut off the retainer and replaced with a c-clip, you haven't upset the mesh of the cogs have you?  I am thinking shims required to get the gears in proper mesh again.  When you remove the LW pawl there is probably no load on the gears and they happily centre themselves, but driving the pawl back and forth shifts them on the shaft.  Do the gear teeth show any signs of running on the outside?
cheers
Steve
Specialist Daiwa reel service, including Magseal.

Bryan Young

I was thinking the same thing Steve. Misalignment.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

oc1

What moves side to side?  The worm or only the levelwind carriage (the block the leverwind wire is attached to). 
-steve

Jim Dempsey

Sorry everyone. I forgot to check "Notify".

The work gear itself moves ~1 - 1.5 mm from side to side. The Pawl appears to be virtually identical to others in my other reels with respect to condition. size, etc. The worm gear is bright and glistening. It is well cleaned and lubed.

The noise was present before swapping out the side plate. Significantly better with the new side plate, but still noisy as hell. There is a pressure spring under the pawl, that when replaced, reduced the side to side movement of the line guide. Didn't help the noise, though. I'm at a total loss. The worm gear housing is solid as a rock.

The only thing I know to do at this point is to replace the worm gear; but, I feel like I'm just shooting in the dark. The new cog wheel was stubborn from the supplier, but functional. Still noisy, though. Removing the lip, lubricating, and installing the C-clip was a dramatic improvement. But; certainly no smoking gun compared to others without this noise.

Side Note: I rebuilt my first Mitchell spinning reel this weekend! Woo Hoo! It and an Abu Mitchell rod from the local pawn shop were $10.00. Lots of cleaning and lubing, and I have an antique that's like new. Nothing to write home about, but I it's fairly decent, and did it without a schematic.

Jim Dempsey

Quote from: ReelClean on October 07, 2017, 01:38:12 AM
Only brainstorming here,  since you have cut off the retainer and replaced with a c-clip, you haven't upset the mesh of the cogs have you?  I am thinking shims required to get the gears in proper mesh again.  When you remove the LW pawl there is probably no load on the gears and they happily centre themselves, but driving the pawl back and forth shifts them on the shaft.  Do the gear teeth show any signs of running on the outside?
cheers
Steve

Shouldn't have upset the alignment. The gear position is the same - top to bottom. Just a c-clip holding it in the current position. And a LOT more lubrication. Actually; about half the noise since doing this. It spins 3-4x faster than before.

Bryan Young

Hey Jim, what is the Diameter of the shaft holding the gear. Maybe I could send you some shims to shim the gear better.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

Jim Dempsey

That would be awesome. Thank you so much! I'll have to measure it at work tomorrow with a digital caliper, but will get back with you. I'm assuming that you're talking about the shaft that the plastic gear is on?

The side plate is brand new - as is the gear. The only thing I did was clip off the plastic retainer on the top of the gear to remove it for better lube maintenance. I don't think there's any up or down play with this, but will double check. Before; - out of the box - it spun, but sluggishly. After I lubed it, it spun like a top. Not giving any serious thought to any of the super tuned bearing gears at this point.

Sorry. For some reason; I'm not getting notifications on this thread when someone replies.

Jim Dempsey

OK; you guys are gods! Maybe... Re-reading all of the replies; I decided to remove the side cap and check the gear. Yep. After a number of casts, now; you can see that the brass levelwind gear is only making contact with the outer edge of the plastic gear meshing with the teeth. Full thickness contact, but barely. Well demarcated in the grease and slight discoloration from the brass. There is a slight amount of up and down play on the plastic gear. I have some copper shims that I ordered as extras from Southwestern that are likely the same diameter. And will likely provide the spacing, if I install 2. Good idea? Bad idea?

Bryan Young

Hi Jim,

Yes the shaft holding the gear.

I think you got it figured out. Let me know if you need more shims.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

Jim Dempsey

Fraid not... I appears to be either the spool shaft, or inner shaft of the pinion gear. When you press the release switch, the clutch shifts the pinion gear just outside of the cross pin that retains the spool bearing. I noticed that the sound was more prevalent on the handle side of the reel. I disassembled it and found slight shinny edges on the face of the pinion gear. I used my new Boca pliers to pop the pin out of the spool. Removed the pinion gear and approximated it with the pin area on the spool. It was rough, and almost binding. The pin has plenty of wiggle room when placed in the cross hatch of the pinion, but I don't think the pinion gear is fully retracting from the locking point. I'm going to use a Q-Tip and polishing compound to the inside of the pinion, and the same to a flannel buffing wheel to polish the shaft.

Best I can figure at this point. I went ahead and installed one of the copper shims under the gear, but to the noise remains. Sure does spin fast though.

I'll keep you all posted. What a PITA!

Thanks!

Jim Dempsey

#11
Well; not great news, but I'm going to see how it works. The inside bore of the pinion gear looked like microscopic ants had been eating inside it. I used a .177 cal rifle bore brush and covered it with swab pads. Applied a little Brasso to the cloth and let it rip inside my Dremel tool at low speed. End result was much better, but still far from perfect. Again; this was a salvage reel. Worst case; the pinion and main gear are available for just over $20.00.

I wrapped the left side of the spool shaft with electrical tape, clamped it inside my drill at medium speed and used some 3000 grit wet / dry paper to polish the heck out of it. Buffed it off with a flannel wheel, and the fit is still tight, but not obstructive. I'm going to reassemble it soon, and test it when I get home in a few hours.

Jim Dempsey

That was the ticket. Just threw about 15 effortless 200+/- foot casts with a 3oz sinker. Soft whirring sound from the spinning spool, but no more chatter and noise! Woo hoo! Me likey!

Thanks for all of the suggestions. Bear with me... I'm learning.

festus

Thanks for your account of the problem, l'll remember this if any of my Abus start acting similar.

mikeysm

Remove the brake blocks and try the reel again. If the noise stops its the spool not centered.properly.


Mike