Boca Bearings? What's your take?

[Jim Dempsey]

I'm going to conduct some rather intensive testing with Boca Orange Seal ABEC7 ceramic bearings vs. stock Abu Garcia bearings. I've been in extensive contact with them and have decided on 4 reel formats: 1 of my refurbished 10000CL's, a 7000 CS Pro Rocket, a Morrum M3600C, and a Revo STX-SHS. I'll be doing 5 casts each with 4 different weights; appropriate for the reel size.

I know I'm probably opening a can of worms here; but all I've heard is how good, or how not so much better Boca's are from stock. ABEC5 vs. ABEC7. Ceramic vs stainless steel. Lube vs. dry. On and on. I've watched YouTubes, ad nauseum showing reels with the bearing replaced with Boca's and the dramatic difference in free spool spin time. Problem is; I'm one of these really un-American people who likes cold hard facts. Obviously; with this discipline, there is no absolute science to the outcome. You can argue variables to the cows come home. Wind speed. Wind direction. Spool brake. Line - mono / braid, as well as manufacturer. Type of reel - manufacturer. So; this isn't going to be forensically accurate, but it's going to be better than replacing bearings and spinning an empty spool. That's not how I fish. I'm looking for consistency.

When I rebuilt my first 2 10000CL's, I used the ABEC7 Orange seals. But; added their "Lightning Lube". Noticeable improvement; but that much money??? I got a 3rd 10000CL that was like new - only 20+ years old with some pretty tarry grease in it. It outcast the Boca's by 20-40 feet! Holy $4!t! I spoke to Jeff at Boca, and we were both in agreement that the comparisons should be made by a single reel of each category. He also suggested running my bearings buck naked - no lube, and no seals. So I disassembled the 2 completed; removed the seals, used alcohol in an ultrasonic cleaner for 30 minutes, cleaned the bearing insert, and let 'er rip. I nearly fainted. OK; not really; but I cast over the tops of 2 (BIG) trees 3 houses down the road. So; I went from a casting distance of 120-140 feet to somewhere near 900 feet. Call me crazy, but I consider that significant. Bear in mind; that was with a 3oz sinker on a 10000 spool.

My party package arrived on Friday with the remaining bearings. Unfortunately; this weekend was so windy; that I wasn't going to consider it. And; I have an early morning flight out Monday. But; when I arrive home the following week - assuming the environmental conditions are acceptable; I'm going to let it rip. I've gained usage and filming permission from the local school board to use the football field.

What I'd greatly appreciate from any of you is; your opinion(s), experience(s), and any other ideas that may keep this from becoming a finger pointing exercise. Variables. Techniques. Anything that you can think of to ensure that this experiment remains on a level playing field (no pun intended) - OK; maybe a little pun intended, but I want this to be serious, fair and accurate as possible for all.

Boca has been good enough to supply quite a few bearing for testing, but the end result is going to be the unvarnished truth. The entire process will be filmed.

Come on; I know you have your thoughts - share them!

Thanks in advance!

[MarkT]

My thought is that ABEC7 and ceramics are an unneeded waste in a reel.

[Jim Dempsey]

Well; Mark, we're going to find out. Problem is; all I've seen and heard until now are rumors, speculation, and opinions. That's exactly why I'm going to be spending several thousand dollars for a professional filming / editing crew to document the outcome. You can alter facts; but you can't alter uncut video. Yes; I'm going to clip out the dead time, but the casts; measurements, and results will not be altered. I don't have a dog in this fight - except to find out best bang for the buck. Yeah; based on what I'd seen on YouTube - not to mention my short experience was that they may be some better, but at what cost for what gain? When I performed the suggestions, per Jeff; the results were dramatic. Is it going to be consistent? Dunno. Is it going to be more dependent on various other factors? Dunno. There's only so many manufacturers and variables that I can throw into the mix before the results are self-defeating. If there's a better way to build a mouse trap; I'm the one who's going to find it.

[alantani]

Same as mark. I've always considered stainless steel abec 5's to be optimum.

[Jim Dempsey]

Thanks Alan. I'd done a previous upgrade to one of my STX-SHS's with a kit with the new pliers and an ABEC5 uplift. Couldn't beat the cost. I did the ABEC7 upgrade on another STX-SHS, and "in the house" I'm seeing very little difference between the two. Deal is; the lake is a totally different environment. That's where I want to see the difference. So, I'm doing this on a football field? Again; the environmental conditions can make or break the case. But; the only really accurate comparison - in all fairness to both parties - is to conduct the tests as fair and accurate as possible in a controlled environment.

In the end; there may be so little difference, that it's a nonentity. Particularly when you account for varying winds (sustained - buffeted) on a lake. Not to mention wind direction. Again; it's not going to be forensically accurate, but I want to see if there is a clear, consistent demonstrable difference that justifies the exceptional cost.

[Jenx]

I've heard plenty of arguments for and against Abec 7 bearings. From what I have gathered (reading forums and asking around) is that they don't really make you cast farther as much as they allow you to cast the same distance with far less effort. Granted, I haven't tested this myself to see if it is true or not. However, what I would be most interested in is how much differently Boca Abec 7 bearings perform vs cheaper Chinese Abec 7 bearings?

Earlier this year I sold a Curado 200dhsv to a gentlemen on Craigslist. Upon meeting him he promptly pulled some reels out of his car and showed me their exceptionally long free spool spinning. He went on about how much improved the casting on his reels were with the Abec7 bearings, and then informed me that all these bearings are bought from the same place (China) and you can save a bunch of money by skipping the middle man and just buying straight from China. After listening to this I went home and bought six abec7 bearings for $30 from a Chinese seller. I'm not sure what you paid for your Boca bearings, but $30 for six abec7 bearings seemed cheap compared to what I have seen most going for. So I installed two of these bearings in my Curado 300dsv and the free spool greatly improved. It spun at least twice as long as it had with the stock bearings. Anyways, what I'm getting at, assuming any of my ramblings makes sense considering I have had a couple of cocktails, is whether or not Boca bearings are worth the price they are asking for them.

[exp2000]

Wow! great undertaking on your part Jim. Looking forward to seeing the results.

The only testing I have done is direct observational comparisons on small spool bearings isolated from spools.

My observations agree with yours regarding the old ABU spool bearings. Spin time is considerably greater than the current generation. I think they used quality Swedish bearings in the old reels.

I will also be interested to see the outcome regarding ABEC 7 bearings although Japanese bearings may be more revealing.

I exclusively use Japanese bearings for spool servicing. My comparisons reveal that several Chinese brands I have tried so far are VASTLY inferior products although U$5 for a Chinese bearing is very expensive so maybe not in your case Jenx.

The thing is that the quality of Japanese product is so superb that ABEC 7 is the de-facto standard for any Japanese bearing. Yet they provide incredible free-spin time from my limited tests and observations.

Good luck in your quest.
~

[Cor]

I look forward to reading your ultimate results as casting is a very important aspect to me.    Personally I've tried a lot of things to improve my casting distance and accuracy but only once tried the Boca Yellow Seal bearings.   My conclusion was "too expensive for any possible benefit"

I honestly think that casting, can't be a method to test bearings for reasons you already state  quote " You can argue variables to the cows come home. Wind speed. Wind direction. Spool brake. Line - mono / braid, as well as manufacturer. Type of reel - manufacturer. So; this isn't going to be forensically accurate, but it's going to be better than replacing bearings and spinning an empty spool."

I think your objective therefore should be to test if replacing stock reel bearings with Boca Yellow Seal will improve your casting distance?    Perhaps I can answer that for you.....No it won't or not noticeably so unless the stock bearings are realy bad.

It may make the reel spin faster, or make the reel feel smoother.    What we do if the reel spins faster, we use our thumb more to slow it down, or we use thicker oil on the bearings or stronger cast control?

A final comment, a 10% improvement in casting distance is a very big gain but very difficult to measure because your cast is inconsistent and perhaps 5 casts is not enough to calculate an average.

I found the best improvement in casting was achieved by using a correctly balanced rig for my ability and strength as I could then use the rods sweet spot to cast consistently well.

Good luck and enjoy this exercise.

[CapeFish]

you can make a reel spin as fast as you want, if it goes out of control (which is what happens when it spins too fast) then you gain no distance only a crows nest. I would speculate that you may see some minor gains (if you can manage not to fluff the casts) with light weights. Also, if a reel has a level wind I fail to see how a super fast spinning bearing will make a difference, the level wind will simply negate it. If your reel is spinning nice and smoothly, you have a decent aluminium spool and you are not using climbing rope for line I reckon the only dramatic change to distance you will make is to learn a better casting technique and buying another rod

[oc1]

I feel confident that the free spin time of a bearing (put on the end of a pencil and spin it) is correlated to casting distance.  ABEC-7 bearings are somewhat more likely to perform well than ABEC-5 bearings.  The ABEC rating system specifies tolerance limits in manufacture.  However, the ABEC rating is not necessarily related to the free spin time.  There is a lot of variation in free spin time in bearings with the same ABEC rating.  There is a lot of variation in the same model bearings from the same manufacturer and same supplier.  There is less variation in ABEC-7 bearing than ABEC-5 bearings, but the best ABEC-5 bearing from a ten-pack may be better then the worst ABEC-7 bearing from a ten pack.
-steve

[CapeFish]

I feel confident that the free spin time of a bearing (put on the end of a pencil and spin it) is correlated to casting distance.  ABEC-7 bearings are somewhat more likely to perform well than ABEC-5 bearings.  The ABEC rating system specifies tolerance limits in manufacture.  However, the ABEC rating is not necessarily related to the free spin time.  There is a lot of variation in free spin time in bearings with the same ABEC rating.  There is a lot of variation in the same model bearings from the same manufacturer and same supplier.  There is less variation in ABEC-7 bearing than ABEC-5 bearings, but the best ABEC-5 bearing from a ten-pack may be better then the worst ABEC-7 bearing from a ten pack.
-steve

I reckon unless you are a master caster that can smoothly cast a wildly spinning reel you are not going to get any benefits in distance from abec 5 to 7. People put super fast ceramic bearings in then have to either thumb the reel more or apply more mag force. If you are already thubing your reel in the cast with abec 5 I feel to see how abec 7 is going to get you a longer cast.

[Jim Dempsey]

I've heard plenty of arguments for and against Abec 7 bearings. From what I have gathered (reading forums and asking around) is that they don't really make you cast farther as much as they allow you to cast the same distance with far less effort. Granted, I haven't tested this myself to see if it is true or not. However, what I would be most interested in is how much differently Boca Abec 7 bearings perform vs cheaper Chinese Abec 7 bearings?

Earlier this year I sold a Curado 200dhsv to a gentlemen on Craigslist. Upon meeting him he promptly pulled some reels out of his car and showed me their exceptionally long free spool spinning. He went on about how much improved the casting on his reels were with the Abec7 bearings, and then informed me that all these bearings are bought from the same place (China) and you can save a bunch of money by skipping the middle man and just buying straight from China. After listening to this I went home and bought six abec7 bearings for $30 from a Chinese seller. I'm not sure what you paid for your Boca bearings, but $30 for six abec7 bearings seemed cheap compared to what I have seen most going for. So I installed two of these bearings in my Curado 300dsv and the free spool greatly improved. It spun at least twice as long as it had with the stock bearings. Anyways, what I'm getting at, assuming any of my ramblings makes sense considering I have had a couple of cocktails, is whether or not Boca bearings are worth the price they are asking for them.

Your "ramblings" echo several other posts that I've read on other venues and online searches, so it makes perfect sense. Whether or not there's any difference is a different study for a different day. That's the kind of information I'm looking for.

For the time being; I just want to see what (if any) consistency there is to the claims of increased casting distance. I've seen videos claiming that, but never one showing the real results in feet. t's going to be interesting. Even the difference I saw - although huge - wasn't measured in feet, or under controlled conditions.

[Jim Dempsey]

I look forward to reading your ultimate results as casting is a very important aspect to me.    Personally I've tried a lot of things to improve my casting distance and accuracy but only once tried the Boca Yellow Seal bearings.   My conclusion was "too expensive for any possible benefit"

I honestly think that casting, can't be a method to test bearings for reasons you already state  quote " You can argue variables to the cows come home. Wind speed. Wind direction. Spool brake. Line - mono / braid, as well as manufacturer. Type of reel - manufacturer. So; this isn't going to be forensically accurate, but it's going to be better than replacing bearings and spinning an empty spool."

I think your objective therefore should be to test if replacing stock reel bearings with Boca Yellow Seal will improve your casting distance?    Perhaps I can answer that for you.....No it won't or not noticeably so unless the stock bearings are realy bad.

It may make the reel spin faster, or make the reel feel smoother.    What we do if the reel spins faster, we use our thumb more to slow it down, or we use thicker oil on the bearings or stronger cast control?

A final comment, a 10% improvement in casting distance is a very big gain but very difficult to measure because your cast is inconsistent and perhaps 5 casts is not enough to calculate an average.

I found the best improvement in casting was achieved by using a correctly balanced rig for my ability and strength as I could then use the rods sweet spot to cast consistently well.

Good luck and enjoy this exercise.

Very good points. I chose five casts each because I'd imagine that the strength used to cast, as well as my accuracy is going to begin to vary after much more than that. I think that will provide enough comparison for a "yea" or "nea".  Bottoms line is: How close are the sum totals when all of the tests are completed. Given the previous statement - not to mention the work involved to change out the bearings; this will likely be a several day exercise.

I don't know if I'm that interested to compare manufacturers. Chinese vs. Japanese, etc. I have it by pretty good authority that Boca is an importer, not a manufacturer; so how many variations do you try? Being that I'm not a structural engineer; what would be the most accurate and reliable manufacturing process. They all have ways to put a spin on it to make their own products sound better. This is just morbid curiosity.

[Jim Dempsey]

OK; I'm running behind and have to catch a flight. A few observations from the living room... On the Revo STX; the ABEC 5 bearings actually outspun the 7's by a hair. However; both outspun the stock beearings in my 3rd STX by a mile. Both sets felt far more smooth in spinning and retrieving line that I'd pulled out; or simply cranking the handles. Bears watching.

[Tiddlerbasher]

Several years ago I did a lot of experiments with various Abec grade bearings. To cut a long story short Abec 7 made no difference. In fact some of the bearings were so tight on tolerances that the bearings were slower (with regard to free spool time). Ceramic bearings, Abec 5, certainly improved casting distance provided they were dry - oiling them slowed them down. I have just 2 reels (now) with ceramic bearings - One is a centre pin reel (you guys may call it a mooching reel). The full ceramics on this one work because of the minimal start up inertia, the spin time while impressive (>5mins) is not so important. The reel is primarily used for (long) trotting on a river - where the current pulling on a float (bobber) pulls line off the reel with minimal resistance. Given a fairly straight stretch of water with fairly slow flow - the float can be fished at 30-50yds.
The other reel fitted with ceramic bearings is an Akios Sportcast Shuttle (a top quality Abu rip off). This reel was used in my attempt at casting competitions and for UK beach casting. Equipped with 12lb line and casting 5oz of lead with a borrowed 15ft rod I did manage to break the 200yd barrier a couple of times. I decided competitions of this sort were not for me.
Standard stainless Abec 3 or 5 bearings will be fine for most forms of fishing. I buy loads and simply select the best spinning ones - they are frequently not the most expensive. Abec 7 means tighter tolerances not necessarily longer distance in the cast. If your using a baitcaster, with disengaging level wind, ceramics may help with light weight lures. But most baitcasters (at least mine) the level wind is permanently engaged which will decrease spool speed and spin time. Spool control (magnetic, centrifugal or thumb) will also reduce distance but help with birds nests - it's a trade off to make fishing (casting) more bearable.
Save your money for other upgrades - just my 2 cents.