"Braid ready" -- what does it really mean?

Started by Decker, November 03, 2017, 03:25:47 PM

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Swami805

Thanks that does make sense. It happens surf fishing with a grub on a Carolina rig. it gets washed up on the beach by the surf on the retrieve so there is some slack at times.
Do what you can with that you have where you are

oc1

I get the line wrapped around tip guides.  Jiggle a long whippy rod with loose line and the tip can twirl around in a circle and tangle everything up.  That would happen much less with mono.  The only remedy is to keep the line tight when fiddling with the jig.
-steve

philaroman

Quote from: Decker on November 04, 2017, 03:15:20 AM
Quote from: Swami805 on November 04, 2017, 02:17:57 AM
I bought a "braid ready" spinning reel thinking somehow it would prevent wind knots, no such luck. Not sure why that happens. I use 20lb power pro for fishing small grubs in the surf. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

The times I have gotten wind knots it has been either because the spool was a bit overfilled, or because there wasn't enough tension on the line as it was wound on the spool.  The wind knot happens when the line comes off the spool several rings at once.  Probably you'd do better with less line.   Hope that helps. 

braid needs a certain minimal amount of resistance on the retrieve.  if your terminal tackle doesn't have enough weight (or spinning blade, or crankbait bill) & you don't catch something (fish/stick/salad/whatever) every few casts, you have to manually re-pack it onto the spool

Glos

even braid ready reels have problems with braid
and non braid ready reel being used with braid is a disaster waiting to happen for all sorts of reasons.
btw I hate braid in any reel
Luck is when good preparation meets opportunity.

swill88

Quote from: glos on November 04, 2017, 04:21:04 PM
even braid ready reels have problems with braid
and non braid ready reel being used with braid is a disaster waiting to happen for all sorts of reasons.
btw I hate braid in any reel

no kidding glos! i just bought braid! buzzkill!

steve

Bryan Young

Quote from: glos on November 04, 2017, 04:21:04 PM
even braid ready reels have problems with braid
and non braid ready reel being used with braid is a disaster waiting to happen for all sorts of reasons.
btw I hate braid in any reel
Really?  I have braid on most of my reels without any issues whatsoever. I have to be more attentive fishing braid but love the feeling I get when fishing braid due to the non-stretch of the braid.  I have to be careful sometimes as I have flung fish out of the water setting the hook because it it.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

Crow

    I fish it, mostly on small spinners, in fresh water, and like it....after the "learning curve", that is !  It WILL cut you like a razor....so no grabbing the line and giving a big tug , to tear loose from a snag ! There is ")" stretch....so, I, Too, have "launched" a fish, or two, on the hook set....and , it's easy to straighten small hooks (the rod is the only "spring" you have to cushion the hook set, or any "lunges" that the fish makes. Also, the drag needs to be "smooth"any "jerking", with a zero stretch line really stresses the hooks, etc.)
    I do wish there was more resistance to abrasion , and yes, it will "cut guides".....but, I've cut guides with mono, dacron, and old school nylon lines, too....maybe not as fast, but, the newer guide materials have helped with that problem.
   I think everything has it's place, and the bottom line is to use the gear...and system, that works for you....something you are both comfortable with, and have confidence in .
There's nothing wrong with a few "F's" on your record....Food, Fun, Flowers, Fishing, Friends, and Fun....to name just a few !

Tiddlerbasher

I think the idea of a braid ready rod may be more appropriate. Fuji make some excellent guides that really help reduce ring wrap and wind knots. Of course poor casting technique don't help - I know :(
Braid is lighter than mono, for a given breaking strain, it will get blown around more.

boon

Part of being "braid ready" is having a guide design where the feet of the guide encourage any line that loops up to slide back over the guide rather than getting hung up.

The other key factor is having a guide with a quality insert. I have seen rods with the old chrome plated guides where the braid has cut into it like a saw, which also quickly frays the braid.

In terms of reels.... good line lay is important, quality line guide if it's a level-wind, and tight tolerances so line can't get where it shouldn't.
Last but certainly not least it needs to have way more drag output, and be built to handle it, than a "mono" reel of equivalent size.

Decker

#24
Quote from: boon on November 06, 2017, 06:38:05 AM
The other key factor is having a guide with a quality insert. I have seen rods with the old chrome plated guides where the braid has cut into it like a saw, which also quickly frays the braid.

Can anyone give more details from experience about the guides getting cut? I don't know much about rod engineering & construction at this point, and like using vintage rods for slower action and slower wallet drain.  Also, I'm a weekend warrior surf & jetty (occasionally inshore party boat) guy who tends to buy used equipment from other weekend warriors.  

  • Is there more pressure on the tip guide, so that it is more likely to get cut? Or maybe the stripping guide too?
  • How do aluminum oxide guides hold up?
  • Is thicker braid or "fused braid" less likely to cut?
  • What about drag pressure?
  • I assume the type of fishing that puts more constant pressure on the guides is more likely to wear them, like bottom-fishing with heavy lead.  For plugging there wouldn't be much pressure until fighting a fish.  Trolling is not even a possibility at this point.

Thanks,

/Joe

Keta

Quote from: oc1 on November 03, 2017, 08:20:02 PM
I can't remember the last time I used mono.  It must be 25 or 30 years now and I have never missed it for a moment.
-steve

It was easy for me to go all braid,  all my reels except my only spinner were always filled with dacron with mono on top. Many years later I learned I was using " topshots".  I still use 40 year old dacron and my grandkids will inherit my Spectra.

For bottom fishing and steelhead sensitivity is impontant, troling not so much. 
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

boon

Quote from: Decker on November 06, 2017, 03:22:11 PM
Quote from: boon on November 06, 2017, 06:38:05 AM
The other key factor is having a guide with a quality insert. I have seen rods with the old chrome plated guides where the braid has cut into it like a saw, which also quickly frays the braid.

Can anyone give more details from experience about the guides getting cut? I don't know much about rod engineering & construction at this point, and like using vintage rods for slower action and slower wallet drain.  Also, I'm a weekend warrior surf & jetty (occasionally inshore party boat) guy who tends to buy used equipment from other weekend warriors.  

  • Is there more pressure on the tip guide, so that it is more likely to get cut? Or maybe the stripping guide too?
  • How do aluminum oxide guides hold up?
  • Is thicker braid or "fused braid" less likely to cut?
  • What about drag pressure?
  • I assume the type of fishing that puts more constant pressure on the guides is more likely to wear them, like bottom-fishing with heavy lead.  For plugging there wouldn't be much pressure until fighting a fish.  Trolling is not even a possibility at this point.

Thanks,

/Joe

Tips and stripper guides are the 2 that I see suffer the most. As you mentioned, it's more likely on rods that have loads on them, such as heavy lead on deep-dropping rods, and higher drag. I've found the thickness of the braid seems to make little difference to the outcome.

Even cheaper/older guides with the aluminium oxide inserts should be mostly OK. It's much more of a problem when the guide uses a metal ring.

thorhammer

I've not seen any wear with aluminum oxide inserts. More likely to incur a chip to the ceramic banging it around.   No way I'd put braid on squidder or jiggy for surf casting.  Too big and you'll never get out the little knots. I have braid on most of my SS's.  No issue surf fishing, popping, bottom fishing.  I use a leader of fluoro long enough to get a few turns on spool with double uni knot. No cuts.  If you hang up , wrap around rod and pull straight back or use a rag.  No cuts.

I use 80lb PP on 9500ss for grouper.  No issue.

I troll and live bait with mono only.

Swami805

Been building rods for decades, well over 3000 so far. I offer free labor replacement for broken guides and most clients take me up on it. I have yet to see one guide ruined by braid. I've used Chrome pacbay, perfection and mildrum guides since I started in the 70's and never seen one grooved, the tips have a hardened rings I believe is carborundum (SP?) also won't groove. I also use guides with various ring material. I've seen a few tips on junky rods grooved by mono and/or braid, quality components should be fine. Some how that was a concern when braid came out and it just never died.
I do get some back with the front leg of fuji and alps guides broken from casting. They use heavy mono joined to braid with a knot and cast heavy sinkers. Overtime the force of the knot breaks the guide  at the base of the eye frame where it joins to the front foot. The rings are fine,the frame is the weak point but it's the knot,not the braid.
Braid has it's drawbacks but slicing up guides isn't one of them, buy good quality gear and you'll be fine
Do what you can with that you have where you are

Cor

#29
Quote from: Swami805 on November 07, 2017, 04:33:11 AM
Been building rods for decades, well over 3000 so far. I offer free labor replacement for broken guides and most clients take me up on it. I have yet to see one guide ruined by braid. I've used Chrome pacbay, perfection and mildrum guides since I started in the 70's and never seen one grooved, the tips have a hardened rings I believe is carborundum (SP?) also won't groove. I also use guides with various ring material. I've seen a few tips on junky rods grooved by mono and/or braid, quality components should be fine. Some how that was a concern when braid came out and it just never died.
I do get some back with the front leg of fuji and alps guides broken from casting. They use heavy mono joined to braid with a knot and cast heavy sinkers. Overtime the force of the knot breaks the guide  at the base of the eye frame where it joins to the front foot. The rings are fine,the frame is the weak point but it's the knot,not the braid.
Braid has it's drawbacks but slicing up guides isn't one of them, buy good quality gear and you'll be fine
Wow you've made many rods!  Ive only done maybe 30 but that is recreational.

I've never seen a modern guide with any type of hard ring insert show damage from braid and for that matter not from mono either.   I have experienced braid wrapping around a guide during casting and perhaps it's conceivable that the momentum of a hard cast with a heavy device could rip or bend a guide when suddenly stopped by 80lb braid, but have never heard of or see that either.

However old style metal guides without hard ring inserts do get cut by mono and I am sure braid as well.

Most of us use leaders of some sort and the knot in either mono to mono or braid to mono can be very bulky and I am certain that knot passing through the guides at speed will dislodge rings or break them, but that does not happen much either.

I repair many guides for friends, but its difficult to tell how or why they broke.   Most must be from falls or bumps.
Cornelis