alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial "Braid ready" -- what does it really mean?
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
November 21, 2018, 12:45:33 AM *
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Author Topic: "Braid ready" -- what does it really mean?  (Read 5327 times)
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Cor
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I am probably fishing......


« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2017, 09:11:19 PM »

Been building rods for decades, well over 3000 so far. I offer free labor replacement for broken guides and most clients take me up on it. I have yet to see one guide ruined by braid. I've used Chrome pacbay, perfection and mildrum guides since I started in the 70's and never seen one grooved, the tips have a hardened rings I believe is carborundum (SP?) also won't groove. I also use guides with various ring material. I've seen a few tips on junky rods grooved by mono and/or braid, quality components should be fine. Some how that was a concern when braid came out and it just never died.
I do get some back with the front leg of fuji and alps guides broken from casting. They use heavy mono joined to braid with a knot and cast heavy sinkers. Overtime the force of the knot breaks the guide  at the base of the eye frame where it joins to the front foot. The rings are fine,the frame is the weak point but it's the knot,not the braid.
Braid has it's drawbacks but slicing up guides isn't one of them, buy good quality gear and you'll be fine
Wow you've made many rods!  Ive only done maybe 30 but that is recreational.

I've never seen a modern guide with any type of hard ring insert show damage from braid and for that matter not from mono either.   I have experienced braid wrapping around a guide during casting and perhaps it's conceivable that the momentum of a hard cast with a heavy device could rip or bend a guide when suddenly stopped by 80lb braid, but have never heard of or see that either.

However old style metal guides without hard ring inserts do get cut by mono and I am sure braid as well.

Most of us use leaders of some sort and the knot in either mono to mono or braid to mono can be very bulky and I am certain that knot passing through the guides at speed will dislodge rings or break them, but that does not happen much either.

I repair many guides for friends, but its difficult to tell how or why they broke.   Most must be from falls or bumps.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 09:15:29 PM by Cor » Logged

Cornelis
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« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2017, 10:12:22 PM »

I have over 50 rods with braid and have never grooved a guide or cut a finger. I will admit that casting spinning rods with braid does irritate my finger, so I tape it. One thing to remember is that "braid" in one form or another has been around longer than mono, so when you say "braid", it helps to identify what kind. I fully believe that most of the horror stories about braid are either  about some of the first spectra or are from people that are resistant to change. BTW, the only guides I've seen grooved were from mono or sand on the line.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 12:47:23 PM by day0ne » Logged

David


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« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2017, 10:35:59 PM »

I bought a "braid ready" spinning reel thinking somehow it would prevent wind knots, no such luck. Not sure why that happens. I use 20lb power pro for fishing small grubs in the surf. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
I remember when braid came out all the hoopla over how it was going to destroy tackle, cut everyones fingers off and just cause mayhem. None of it came to pass and it revolutionized salt water fishing in many ways. Good stuff

It is the rod eye set up, maybe the first eye is too close to the reel - see modern spinning reels with the reduction guides and they are very carefully spaced, they work really well, but added to that you have possibly over filled the reel. Modern braid friendly guides also are much kinder to he braid itself resulting in it lasting longer.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 10:41:21 PM by CapeFish » Logged
Tiddlerbasher
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« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2017, 01:12:09 AM »

The only grooved rings I've ever had are on fly rod tip tops I guess dirt/grit on the fly line and repetitive casting was the cause.
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Keta
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« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2017, 07:09:48 AM »

I have cut myself with Spectra and have replaced eyes on 2 rods that were grooved by braid.  These rods were used for kokanee trolling.
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Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.
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« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2017, 12:34:27 PM »

If you hook into something good with an old direct drive knuckle buster filled with spectra and try to stop the spool with your thumb it will burn you.  You knew that.  But did you know that the same reel spinning with the same force and speed but loaded with mono, braided nylon, dacron, silk or linen will burn your thumb more.  Linen is the worst of the lot for thumb burn.  The heat build-up is from friction, right?  Isn't abrasion caused by friction too?  I don't think spectra is inherently abrasive.  It is just strong and thin so you concentrate the friction of line running over a guide into a smaller area. 

If you like fishing with 12 lb monofilament nylon, then you should try putting 40 lb spectra on the same rod and reel.  They are both about 0.33 mm diameter.  Match the diameters instead of the pound test.  One of the characteristics we look for in good mono is suppleness and the spectra braid is more supple.  Being made of ultra high molecular weight polyethylene, spectra of the same diameter is much more abrasion resistant than mono too.

So, spectra braid is less abrasive, much more abrasion resistant and much stronger than monofilament of the same diameter.  The only thing not to like is the price.  300 yards of 12 pound Stren monofilament will cost you about eight bucks.  300 yards of 40 pound Power Pro braid will cost you about thirty bucks.

-steve
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« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2017, 12:45:47 PM »

Lee - for those of us from other parts of the world - what is 'Kokanee trolling' - and what different forces does it put on fishing line?
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philaroman
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« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2017, 02:05:59 PM »

small, finicky salmon species...  most limber, soft-tipped 7-9' conventional rods; thinnest line you can get away with
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Keta
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« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2017, 06:41:25 PM »

small, finicky salmon species...  most limber, soft-tipped 7-9' conventional rods; thinnest line you can get away with

8"-16" landlocked sockeye salmon.  They are soft mouthed. 
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Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.
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« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2017, 01:21:59 PM »

I just threw out a bunch of rods that all had grooved guides. One even had a grooved/damaged roller tip. All had been used for deep-dropping with 30oz+ of lead and heavy braid. None of them were worth rebuilding; I got them as part of a deal and none of them were terribly spectacular.
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ez2cdave
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« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2018, 08:34:37 AM »

Being made of ultra high molecular weight polyethylene, spectra of the same diameter is much more abrasion resistant than mono too.

So, spectra braid is less abrasive, much more abrasion resistant and much stronger than monofilament of the same diameter.  The only thing not to like is the price.  300 yards of 12 pound Stren monofilament will cost you about eight bucks.  300 yards of 40 pound Power Pro braid will cost you about thirty bucks.

-steve

Tight Lines !







« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 10:15:09 AM by ez2cdave » Logged
Jeri
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« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2018, 06:13:45 PM »

This whole concept of 'braid ready' is really a misnomer, or at least should be these days. However, there is obviously a commercial benefit slant to using the word in advertising.

Most rods should be labelled 'braid friendly' if they have good quality ceramic insert guides. Using only the Fuji range of inserts for discussion, as you progress from 'O', to 'A' to 'SiC' to 'T' in their current range, the materials get progressively harder, and take the diamond polishing process better - so end up microscopically smoother - and hence less aggressive to braided spectra lines when used under pressure.

Fuji also addressed the issues of windknots in surf rods using braid back in the 1990's with the introduction of their Low Rider guides, where the spacing (critical), orientation and frame design all work to effectively eliminate windknots. This guide scheme replaced the old fashioned concept of big eye guides reducing down in size up the length of the rod, and very effectively as well. It was however, pretty much limited to long surf rods. Later they developed a series of guides called 'K' series, where the forward facing shape and redesign of the frames significantly reduced the number of windknots, by removing places where the braid could wrap around frame spars. The 'K' series doesn't prevent windknots, it just allows the formation  and then untangles the partial knot.

However, because of a reluctance of the angling public to accept that on spinning type rods to use much smaller first guides, because it so challenges what we have all been brought up with - big eyed guides, the formation of windknots persevered. Until Fuji came up with their latest guide layout design called the K-R Concept. This concept takes the coils of braid coming off the reel, and very quickly forces those coils through a rapid reduction set of guides, to the point where the spiral aspect of the braided line becomes virtually straight - and at thios point Fuji recommend very small eyed guides up the remainder of the rod.

When spaced correctly, and with the appropriate sizing of K-R guides, nearly every spinning rod can now become virtually windknot free. And here the word virtually is very relevant. For if braid is not wound onto the reel under reasonable pressure, then loose coils will attemt to cause problems with the next cast.

Windknots generally occur when the speed of line approaching the guides, cannot be accomodated by the guide layout design - then bunching of line occurs at the guide, and eventually this bunch overtakes the guide, wraps around a frame component, and then eventually gets pulled tight - 1 windknot!! Design the guides to cope with the volume, speed and harmonics of the line, and the windknot problem goes away.

Braid is often blamed for a lot of problems that occur on rods, that have not been design to be 'braid friendly'.

As a footnote. I have seen very many solid wire guides damaged/grooved by use with braided spectra. Thsi comes back to the hardness of the chromed steel used, for it is nowehere near as hard as say an aluminium oxide ceramic.

Hope that clears up some points about this topic - have expressed what we have found out in our rod building business, with the recent (last 5 years) transition of our surf fishery into almost exclusive use of braid and spinning reels, from ligt to very heacy applications.

Cheers from sunny Africa.

Jeri
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Recoil Rob
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« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2018, 10:14:14 AM »

I've been leaving mono behind myself these days. One thing I think I have figured out is that conventional reels need heavier braid than spinning reels.

I purchased a VS 200 on Ebay, it came spooled with a light braid, I'd have to think 20-30 lb. Even though it was new I was going to change the line anyway and I needed to spool a Abu 8600 Striper with braid for a fluke trip so I took it off the VS.

On a spinning reel it works fine because as the line is wound back onto the reel it crosses over itself with every rotation. But on the Abu I found that when I reeled up from 80 ft with a 4-5 lb. fish the braid would bury itself and I'd have to pull it out on the next drop down. This Abu isn't a level wind so I'm not sure if that would help, in the meantime my left thumb was busy.
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