Cutting a Star "Old school"

[STRIPER LOU]

Gary, I thought about using rivets, but, going to small flat head screws actually gives you the best of both worlds. I was planning to peen them at the very end if necessary as an added precaution.

It would be super strong!

...........Lou

[gstours]

   Apparently you have a tap for the 113h gearsleeve ?  I do remember they are sort of an oddball size as general machine taps go.  I never took the time to research the correct size and pitch butt I do remember some of the members have described what it is.   Anyone thant wants to chime in its ok with me on this subject.    I was thinking of roughing out a couple of stars with somewhat undersize pilot holes and then sending them to someone to tap the 113h gearsleeve threads for me for a service fee.   That might be the best way to do my project.
    I would like to make one star for the 114h narrow I,m fond of as well.    Anybody know what those gearsleeve threads are?
I was thinking of using 3/16 or 1/4 inch alum alloy 5086 as Ive got scraps of it to play with.   Just another idea?

[Three se7ens]

1/2"-32 tpi for the 113H

114H and up all use buttress threads, and there are no commercially available taps in those sizes.  Custom taps run well upwards of $100 each.

[Alto Mare]

   Apparently you have a tap for the 113h gearsleeve ? 
   

All guys that do a lot of reel service should have taps for the stars, the ones that you're able to get.
I have taps for Jigmaster size and 113h size, I go over every star when servicing my reels, even the fresh ss stars.
I could really feel the difference afterwards.
I've also retapped the coarse thread star on a jigmaster to fine thread with no issues.

Sal

[oc1]

Is there an ultra fine tap and die standard?  Something finer then UNF.  Finer than 1/2"-20 or 1/4"-28.  You see finer threads on all sort of things besides reels.  Are they all custom sizes?
-steve

[mhc]

Is there an ultra fine tap and die standard?  Something finer then UNF.  Finer than 1/2"-20 or 1/4"-28.  You see finer threads on all sort of things besides reels.  Are they all custom sizes?
-steve

Steve, I don't know a lot about them but there is UNEF or NEF (EF stands for Engineering Fine I think) 1/2"-28, 1/4"-32 and 5/16"-32 and so on. The 1/2"-28 is used for some of the bearing cups. I'm not sure what standard the 8-40 penn uses are though - I think I've seen it called UNS ( S for special?)
Mike

[Robert Janssen]

Is there an ultra fine tap and die standard?  Something finer then UNF.  

Yes, there is UNEF, EF standing for Extra Fine. And similar in metric pitches-- fine, finer, really fine, crazy fine. They are not fine enough in this case though. Sal and Three Se7ens already clarified the needed spec.

Making your own taps is not at all impossible; it just takes a bit more resources than what most folks have at their disposal.

Lou, job well done! I like the clever indexing jig. Great polishing too. You have a very interesting professional background. Thank you so much for the very kind words earlier. I'm sure you could figure out how to thread this star on the lathe. Like invent a little holding thing, set the lathe up for 32 tpi and use any 32 tpi tap as a form tool. If you wanted to.


Edit & Addendum: mhc types faster than i do...

[Rothmar2]

Quality people, quality workmanship, quality banter!

[Crow]

    Although it would be next to useless for cutting "new" threads in stainless..or even treated steel, I have made many "taps" for "re threading", or threading *soft* materials , by grinding 'relief slots" in a grade 8 steel bolt (if I get out to my shop, later, I'll see if I can hunt one up, and post a pic). One edge of the slot is ground at 90 degrees(or a bit less) to the axis of the bolt (that's the 'cutting edge'), and the other "edge" has a much shallower angle. If you look at a "real" tap.....just grind the bolt , the same way. Then you can taper the bolt end, slightly, to make *starting* easier. Grade 8, or even grade 5, bolts CAN be hardened, too, if desired .

[gstours]

Thanks again for the info about these threads to all who chimes in.    I think that the grade 8 bolt would be an alternative Poor Mans tap if aluminum was used  in this example.   Thanks for the specifics with the heattreating idea as well.    After cutting  the tap chip flutes and shaping the taper should a person heat to cherry red and oil quench?   I could check harness with a file before and after the first quench?
   Any recommendations might be helpful to others trying to learn this stuff as well?    As Aluminum might not be the best for the threads I might find some alloy better than the AL 5086?    I wish I had a lathe and small milling machine.   And a Floatplane.   and and!

[oc1]

Thank you Mike and Robert.  1/4"-32 will be perfect.  I don't know why I couldn't find out about UNEF through google searches.  You machinists must have a secret club.
-steve

[Crow]

    Yes, if you heat to a "cherry" red, then quench....that will harden the material. Without "tempering...it's liable to be REAL hard, and brittle, but probably OK for soft materials. The real trick is to find a bolt with the TPI that you need....unless you have  a lathe, and can "make one". You can make dies, in basically the same way....filing "reliefs" in the threads (or, using a "castle nut").

[gstours]

   I found out a little about "buttress threads "   as the Penn  114h and maybe the larger senator reels are using , gearsleeve and star are apparently made from this thread to help with the one directional load.    Makes sense butt I never knew.   Now you do too!

[oc1]

Thank you for that Gary.

How hard would a steel nut and bolt have to be to make a tap and die for brass?  I don't suppose stainless would work.
-steve

[Crow]

   I never tried with stainless....but it's really sort of "gummy", so I doubt it would work well, as a "cutting tool". Any that I have made from grade 8 bolts were fine for "rethreading", just as they are. Both the grade 5, and the grade 8 are 'heat treated" (as well as being better steel than the "soft" grade 2)  The threads that I "cut' (virgin threads) were in aluminum, and they cut easily, but, as the "real" taps and dies have slightly "oversize' threads (to allow for clearance) the end product produces 'tight threads". In googling some "odd-ball" thread sizes, there are quite a few "China producers" who have some really off the wall sizes...prices are cheap.....but I suppose the 'product"is cheap, too !