SARAGOSA

[Scattergun2570]

I am considering a Slammer for Surfcasting,,and the shop I deal with suggested the Saragosa instead,,he argued its lighter,etc... I was wondering what your opinions are on the Saragosa VS the Slammer.

[FatTuna]

I rebuilt a slammer III a little while ago. I didn't like it at all. The handle on it is really heavy. The reel felt off balance. The inside looked pretty good though. Gears looked beefy. Frame and rotor were solid. This particular reel had heavy saltwater intrusion.

Saragosa is my favorite spinning reel for the money. It's really good looking and smooth. I've fished a few and I've rebuilt a lot of them. Haven't seen one with water inside it yet.

[exp2000]

Saragosa is my favorite spinning reel for the money. It's really good looking and smooth.

Yeah me too.

But they are not dunkable! I have seen a number of these with water intrusion.

Trouble is, the nice sealing employed in these reels also keeps the water in once the seal is breached and that is when you run into expensive maingear problems.

The sealing makes them water resistant but not water proof.
~

[FatTuna]

I don't really think any of the reels are totally water proof. It's a measure of how water resistant. I've seen $800 Van Staals leak.

[Scattergun2570]

Saragosa is my favorite spinning reel for the money. It's really good looking and smooth.

Yeah me too.

But they are not dunkable! I have seen a number of these with water intrusion.

Trouble is, the nice sealing employed in these reels also keeps the water in once the seal is breached and that is when you run into expensive maingear problems.


Excuse my ignorance,but are you saying there are sealed reels that allow water that has gotten in to somehow get out?
The sealing makes them water resistant but not water proof.
~

[MarkT]

If you're going swimming with your reels, buy cheap ones and replace them often!

[johndtuttle]

Saragosa is my favorite spinning reel for the money. It's really good looking and smooth.

Yeah me too.

But they are not dunkable! I have seen a number of these with water intrusion.

Trouble is, the nice sealing employed in these reels also keeps the water in once the seal is breached and that is when you run into expensive maingear problems.


Excuse my ignorance,but are you saying there are sealed reels that allow water that has gotten in to somehow get out?
The sealing makes them water resistant but not water proof.
~

"Sealed" reels are made by the makers but with no certification or objective testing that any objective engineering standard (ie IP for Ingress Protection) has been met other than Penn. So as the seals wear with age there is a depth where they leak like sieves as water pressure increases. The minimal Engineering Standard for "waterproof" is IPX7 iirc, which is one meter submersion for something like up to 30 minutes or something before leaking and with no cranking...doubtful that any reel made meets this standard after extensive use.

And this is why no one other than Van Staal says you can crank their reel underwater. So don't believe anyone that says you can with any other reel. Eventually you will come to grief.

The other trouble with seals is that they may permit leakage under pressure (ie submerge 3 feet deep where the pressure is high) but once the water is in the same seals keep it totally in (very little pressure to come out on dry land). Any water that gets in, stays in.

This is why some of us believe that the really ideal set up is a SS reel that is easily rinse-able, opened and re-greased. ALL of the sealed reels fail eventually (they must, every crank of the reel wears the seals)...but also being west coast, the idea of deep wading in our freezing and monstrous surf is just a no go regardless...so I (for one) really only care about seals protecting from splashing....this idea of submerging reels is just crazy talk.

[Scattergun2570]

Saragosa is my favorite spinning reel for the money. It's really good looking and smooth.

Yeah me too.

But they are not dunkable! I have seen a number of these with water intrusion.

Trouble is, the nice sealing employed in these reels also keeps the water in once the seal is breached and that is when you run into expensive maingear problems.


Excuse my ignorance,but are you saying there are sealed reels that allow water that has gotten in to somehow get out?
The sealing makes them water resistant but not water proof.
~

"Sealed" reels are made by the makers but with no certification or objective testing that any objective engineering standard (ie IP for Ingress Protection) has been met. So as the seals wear with age there is a depth where they leak like sieves as water pressure increases. The minimal Engineering Standard for "waterproof" is IPX7 iirc, which is one meter submersion for something like up to 30 minutes or something before leaking and with no cranking...doubtful that any reel made meets this standard after extensive use.

The trouble with seals is that they may permit leakage under pressure (ie submerge 3 feet deep) but once the water is in the same seals keep it totally in (very little pressure to come out).

This is why some of us believe that the really ideal set up is a SS reel that is easily rinse-able, opened and re-greased. ALL of the sealed reels fail eventually (they must, every crank of the reel wears the seals)...but also being west coast, the idea of deep wading in our monstrous surf is just a no go regardless...so I (for one) really only care about seals protecting from splashing....this idea of submerging reels is just crazy talk.

Splash is all I need to be concerned with,I don't submerge. I guess by accident I may drop it and it goes under though..that's always a possibility.

[handi2]

With those 2 reels in mind and surfcasting i would get the Saragosa SW. For Offshore boat Fishing I like the Penn Slammer III. Ive been through all of those reels. I fish the Slammer III 6500 right next to a Shimano Twinpower 14000. The Slammer handles big fish as good as any reel.

[Scattergun2570]

With those 2 reels in mind and surfcasting i would get the Saragosa SW. For Offshore boat Fishing I like the Penn Slammer III. Ive been through all of those reels. I fish the Slammer III 6500 right next to a Shimano Twinpower 14000. The Slammer handles big fish as good as any reel.

What makes you go in favor of the Saragosa?

[MarkT]

Better sealing whereas that's not as important if the reel isn't going to get splashed.  I find reels get splashed on boats too so I like the Saragosa.

[handi2]

With those 2 reels in mind and surfcasting i would get the Saragosa SW. For Offshore boat Fishing I like the Penn Slammer III. Ive been through all of those reels. I fish the Slammer III 6500 right next to a Shimano Twinpower 14000. The Slammer handles big fish as good as any reel.

What makes you go in favor of the Saragosa?

The lighter weigh and the use of composites on their reels. Better for getting wet and sandy. The Penn is an all metal beast.

[Scattergun2570]

With those 2 reels in mind and surfcasting i would get the Saragosa SW. For Offshore boat Fishing I like the Penn Slammer III. Ive been through all of those reels. I fish the Slammer III 6500 right next to a Shimano Twinpower 14000. The Slammer handles big fish as good as any reel.

What makes you go in favor of the Saragosa?

The lighter weigh and the use of composites on their reels. Better for getting wet and sandy. The Penn is an all metal beast.

I also read something about it having a "parallel reel foot" how does that affect things?

[Jeri]

I am considering a Slammer for Surfcasting,,and the shop I deal with suggested the Saragosa instead,,he argued its lighter,etc... I was wondering what your opinions are on the Saragosa VS the Slammer.

For surf fishing, where getting the reel wet is inevitable, I would suggest perhaps a different option - Quantum Cabo series. We do some very traumatic surf fishing here in south west Africa, and generally the previous mentioned models have both earned a poor reputation for failure. However, the Cabos have remained a faithful long serving product mainly because the designers didn't go down the 'waterproof' route, they decided to make the internals more salt water resistant and in the larger models they even provide a drain plug at the base of the reel to let water OUT!! Another aspect of the Cabo that does seem to help with distance casting is the shape of the spool lip, it is not square shaped, but forward tapered to allow better line release off the spool during in the cast - reduced lip friction.

I've been using a PTSE 60 for 3 years now, pretty solid and even tourist clients have never managed to do any damage to these reels - and they keep on working. Easy to maintain, and have a solid drag, which size for size exceeds most other brands.

Have opened up a number of Saragosa reels, and found a lot of water in the gearbox, which has had time to corrode the aluminium gears to near useless. Seen the same on some Stellas that have been used in our fishery - as they have very similar seal designs and aluminium gears.

The Shimano 'parallel foot' design for surf fishing applications is in my opinion a 'negative', for as Shimano suggest,, you need a rod that has been specifically designed for this particular aspect to work properly. The concept they are trying to overcome is line wrapping around rings, especially when fising with braids. A well designed surf rod is usually able to cope with this problem with out altering the geometry of the reel, as most reels have a 3-5 degree offset - this directs the flow of braid towards the line and direction of the rings - bring the geometry out to 0 degrees, alters the approach direction of the braid. It probably works well on Shimano rods that have been deliberately designed for 0 degree offset.

This whole 0 degree offset aspect is also a reason that the Saragosa has earned a poor reputation, for braid line wraps causing failure of tackle, which sometimes is pretty catastophic. We have seen rods coming in for repair, where the reel has caused a line wrap that has locked the line around the ring so solidly, that the power of the cast has ripped the ring out of the bindings.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers from sunny Africa

Jeri