Carbontex and brass drag washers...

[thorhammer]

Hey folks, I keep hearing rumors lately that one shouldn't use carbontex drag washers with brass washers. I'm gonna call BS unless someone can really explain to me why...Penn uses brass with HT100, which is carbon fiber also, and runs them dry. Greasing, as you should anyway, will minimize corrosion: check. K value on brass is 111, for SS it is 12-45 depending on alloy, so AT WORST, thermal transfer of brass is better than double SS, that's why its used for heat sinks. Chemically and thermally speaking, no good reason you can't do this. If one were to go thinner washers to add more drags, I can see using SS for strength, especially for the ears, but I've never had any issue if I simply lapped the brass washers, swapped into new HT-100 or carbontex, greased with Cal's, and kept on. Where I'm Tanking a reel, then I swap to SS kits, but for operating a reel in its historic parameters I don't see cost vs. reward...I'm not going past 6 or 7 pounds of drag on a Beachmaster with 20lb test so I just don't see it...


That said, like everyone else here, I have many times spent more on a new handle and drags that a reel might be worth


Thoughts?

John

[Rancanfish]

You are correct John.  I have never had a failure of a conventional Penn.

I've caught salmon, sturgeon, sharks, stripers, etc.

We upgrade because it's sexy.  If I was fishing giant grouper, tuna or sealions, I would be running for my versions of the 'tank'.

I don't toss brass if it's still smooth and clean because I will never see a problem in my fishing.

[mo65]

   I use brass washers all the time in stock drag stacks. As long as the originals aren't corroded I always re-use them, unless like you said, I'll go ss in a 5 or 7 stack kit. I guess a dry carbon fiber against a dry brass could remove some material on a hard running fish, at least shine it up real good. I'd like to be lucky enough to have a fish burn down a drag stack!

[thorhammer]

Exactly.  I'd like to be lucky enough to hook any thing that would actually test this.  My pb is an eight foot shark on bone stock 114hlw with 50 Ande.  Leaned in it hard enough to permanently torque a solid glas magnaflex. Brass washers not the weak spot for sure. 

[Rancanfish]

Dyslexic brass washer users UNTIE!

[Alto Mare]

I also use lots of brass washers in my reels and are doing just fine, but none in the larger reels. I have a bunch of chromed brass washers from the 4/0 and up, a clear indication that a standard brass washer wouldn't  hold up in larger reels, but I might be wrong.
Not holding up in a sense of shavings and especially flexing.
There are many types of stainless steel, some are much stronger than brass but some are actually weaker.

Also, keep in mind our custom Jigmasters and 4/0's put out double the drag numbers than they were designed for.
I have noticed on some of my tests even the 113H SS yoke flexes under heavy drag, this doesn't mean the yoke isn't designed properly. If that was a stock brass yoke, it wouldn't have made it.
I will keep using my brass washers on spinners and surfmaster size reels, but on larger reels, Bryan's kits and Prochallenger's are very tough, I would choose those over brass anytime and that's not just for looks.
Just my opinion.

Sal

[thorhammer]

All great feedback, this is what I was looking for and aligns with my thinking. In many situations (gasp) I still like mono, and don't normally go up more than a prescribed line class, so that's operating within the original design limits (I don't go up past 60lb on a stock-ish 4/0, for instance). Anything I'm building with the aluminum plate / frame upgrades I will put a SS kit into, with steel gears, and possibly sleeve also if I'm going up three classes (100lb braid on not-your-grandpa's 4/0).  If not, then no need for the aluminum, IMO. Well, it looks dang cool, but that's not a need, per se. Note: the Tank doesn't have aftermarket plates and 99.9% of us won't ever make it sweat....As stated, the only issue I could see might be strength, but I wanted to know if anyone knew of a chemical or composition reason not to use carbontex on brass.

[Crow]

     I've *torn down* a lot of reels, this year, and all came to me with "stock" drag components....brass washers (sometimes , plated brass), and the leather , or composite asbestos discs. In all those reels (about 45), I've only seen two with "brass problems"....both were 49's, and both had either the "ears" torn off, or, in the case of the "keyed washers", the centers distorted. In some of the others, I re used the brass....and in some, I replaced it with the SS washers....mostly depending on the size of the reel, and what I "intend" to do with it.
     I think with *normal use*, (and regular servicing) the brass washers would be fine to use......but, that said, In a "larger reel" (or a smaller one that you expect to take to it's "limits") the SS washers aren't THAT expensive !

[Bryan Young]

All great feedback, this is what I was looking for and aligns with my thinking. In many situations (gasp) I still like mono, and don't normally go up more than a prescribed line class, so that's operating within the original design limits (I don't go up past 60lb on a stock-ish 4/0, for instance). Anything I'm building with the aluminum plate / frame upgrades I will put a SS kit into, with steel gears, and possibly sleeve also if I'm going up three classes (100lb braid on not-your-grandpa's 4/0).  If not, then no need for the aluminum, IMO. Well, it looks dang cool, but that's not a need, per se. Note: the Tank doesn't have aftermarket plates and 99.9% of us won't ever make it sweat....As stated, the only issue I could see might be strength, but I wanted to know if anyone knew of a chemical or composition reason not to use carbontex on brass.

Regarding chemical compatibility, I have not seen any issues.  With that said, if I can use brass, I would because brass has its own self lubricating effect making drags smoother...but as mentioned, they are not as strong as hard stainless of equivalent thicknesses.

[basto]

I have two 3/0 Senators that came with stock 5 stack drags with brass metals.

[gstours]

   Brass washers ore not is not isnt a corrosion issue if the parts are greased in a normal maintainence manner....  They are generally thicker than sst and fell out of favor as (we) started to find ways to get more drag is my opinion..... generally speaking if you fish the reel the way its designed to!!!!!   no problem.......   Bress is softer and may make a more, or, forgiffing drag,   Just my 2 cents!

[Keta]

I make my own SS washers and have a lot to use but if the brass washers are not badly pitted or groved I reuse them.  Brass tends to be "stickier" than SS and I think a higher max drag can possably be obtalned by using it but as of now I have not tested my "theory".


Carbon fiber and fiberglass do not react with many things, and defenatly not saltwater.  

[RowdyW]

When I get a reel with a 3 stack with brass washers & I increase it to a 5 stack I just add 2 SS washers if I don't have any more brass washers available. Mix & Match, no problem.    Rudy