Saros [prev: Spheros] 3000FA spool shaft hits rotor assembly

[Bubba.Gritz]

I've acquired a used Spheros Saros 3000FA that I think still has some life left in it, but it has an annoying rough spot in the handle rotation.  Thought it was a bad bearing or AR clutch, but have figured out the spool shaft is descending down too far in the rotation and the spool support gear or spacer actually makes contact with the top of the rotor assembly, which creates the rough spot in the retrieve.  Reel is clearly well-used and appears to have been dis/re-assembled many times, so studying schematics to determine whether or not something's been reassembled incorrectly, but so far have found nothing wrong.  Any experience with this problem and know typical causes(s)?

Thanks for suggestions.  / Joel

[boon]

I would speculate that the rotor is sitting high, possibly the spacer in the clutch installed upside-down? Looking at the schematic I can't think of anything else that would cause this; anything wear-related should cause it to not descend as far rather than too much.

[Bubba.Gritz]

Excellent suggestion. I'll inspect that closely tonight. 

[philaroman]

...Reel is clearly well-used and appears to have been dis/re-assembled many times, so studying schematics to determine whether or not something's been reassembled incorrectly, but so far have found nothing wrong.  Any experience with this problem and know typical causes(s)?

1) rotor not seated properly is most likely
2) Shimano schematics often show 0-1 shims, where 2-3 were actually needed & installed at the factory (esp. true for older, more affordable, Malaysian models); they tend to stick to grease, get overlooked & fall off at most inopportune times...  then the reel gets reassembled according to schematic w/ only one shim
3) may need a shim that wasn't there originally, to compensate for age/wear

[Bubba.Gritz]

The solution was hilariously simple: the nylon/plastic spacer was installed upside down.  One side is cupped to fit over the rotor nut (other side is flat), and that cupped side was facing up.  No telling how long it had been installed that way.  Installed correctly, that white nylon spacer fits down neatly over the rotor nut when the spool shaft is at its lowest point in the shaft's oscillation.  It's still an old reel that feels kinda "loosey-goosey" but think it's got some life left in it -- and the handle rotation is now completely smooth.  Thanks for helping me think through this.  FYI -- Joel

[handi2]

That's great Bubba. FYI if the sleeve in the roller clutch is upside down it wont work!! No anti reverse.

[Bubba.Gritz]

For the archival record, the reel in question is actually a SAROS 3000FA, not a Spheros.  Just working on multiple reels at one time, and got it stuck in my head that this specific reel was a Spheros.  Doesn't matter much in terms of the schematics -- and specifically, doesn't seem to matter in terms of this Spool Support thingie (washer, spacer?).  The schematics don't show how to place the spool support on the spool shaft, but it makes a difference in this case.  Most of the lower end Shimano spinning reels I've worked on typically have a single metal spool support thingie, but this Saros has a plastic/nylon one that works correctly only when installed one way (with the cupped side down to fit over the rotor nut when spool shaft descends that far). For all I know, the original owner used a spool support thingie from another reel.  FYI -- joel

[Bubba.Gritz]

This issue was still on my mind.  Got to inspect another Saros 3000 reel and reviewed the Saros 3000FA schematics.  Realized the problem was easier and more basic: the reel was simply missing the small metal spool support B (part #RD14833).  Part cost only cost $1, but made all the difference.  The nylon spool support A (part #RD14832) does NOT need to be inverted as I indicated above -- doing that did alleviate the problem, but this used reel was actually missing that metal spool support B which prevents the nylon spool support A from sliding down too far on the spool shaft and making contact with the rotor. Just wanted to clarify this in case someone were consult this thread in the future.   Bottom line: this was a used reel that someone had put back together without a small but important part.  FWIW // joel

[handi2]

Are you talking about the very small keyed metal washer the goes on the spool shaft first? You gots to have it. I'm glad you finally got it figured out.

Pictures help immensely.

Keith

[Bubba.Gritz]

Yep, that's spool support B (part #RD14833).  It's a very simple & cheap ($1) thing, but the reel just doesn't work right without it! 

I acquired this used reel from a friend who was gonna discard it.  Just didn't review the schematics carefully enough to realize it was missing at first. 

Thanks -- Joel

[Gfish]

Shimano's 'er kinda complicated. They seem to have more parts than other comparable reels.
Gfish

[handi2]

Shimano's 'er kinda complicated. They seem to have more parts than other comparable reels.
Gfish

Much more unneeded parts to accomplish the same thing. One big example is their line rollers on spinning reels. Some have up to 9 parts. Other reels will have 4.

[Gfish]

Yeah, that's exactly what I's thinkin 'bout when I last posted: my Stratic spinners got 8 parts for the line rollers.
Gfish