tld 20\30 two speed failure

Started by alantani, November 21, 2017, 05:32:36 PM

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alantani

the frame is always the first thing to go, but the the anti-reverse pawl is next weakest link.  i've never heard of the pawl actually failing until now.  it finally happened!  

QuoteAlan,
I just wanted to give you feedback on the TLD series vis a vis big fish. I caught several 100-130s on my tld 20 last week ..on last fish, antireverse broke. I put so much pressure on the fish, i actually bent my custom handle in the process. ( was fishing 80 with about 25# drag at time of failure).  This was my first two speed reel, at least 25 years old, and while it has been good to me, it will not be coming with me on big fish trips in the future....size to power ratio of the TLDs just does not make sense in the spectra era.

On the other hand, boat loaner rods (fathom 40nld2) were doing extremely well fishing 80#. Impressive little reel - especially given price. I fished my 50wide for jackpot chunk fish...there is still no comparison to the big gear.

Matt



send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

STRIPER LOU

Wow Alan,

Is the handle arm bent too or is it just an optical illusion?

.................Lou

alantani

no, it's bent.  musta been a hellava fight!   ;D
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

Bryan Young

Wow, that is some force to bend those arms.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

Jigtosser

Have seen this happen a lot
Frames broke left and right, anti reverse failures, spool would lockup due to frame flex, Cal made us a new drag plate so we wouldn't get spooled as much...
The Tib Magnum/Willfish frames saved a lot of big fish @Guadalupe Island and points south...
And yes, the stock handle arms will bend too... BOY WE HAD FUNN!!!

RowdyW

That wasn't the original handle arm. The original arm is much stronger.

alantani

yeah, the handle arm is one of mine.  it's 304 stainless, so it will bend, just not rust.  still, it would take a crazy amount of force to bend that arm.  i've really gotta wonder what happened to bend the arm like that. 
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

David Hall

Hard to imagine 25# of drag could do that?

SoCalAngler

#8
Quote from: RowdyW on November 22, 2017, 12:46:07 PM
That wasn't the original handle arm. The original arm is much stronger.

Well not really. The first TLD 20/30 II's had aluminum handle arms which were gold anodized. These handle arms had breakage problems, not bending but that may have also happened. Shimano replaced those arms with a chrome plated metal one. I'm not sure what metal was used in the replacements but the breakage stopped.

Shimano did somewhat of a silent recall on these...well at least around here. A local authorized service center close to me and Shimano in Irvine would replace the aluminum arms with the chrome plated ones for free if or when any were brought to their shop for service. I even went to them and showed them my gold arm and they gave me a chrome one even though I did not have them service the reel.  

jurelometer

#9
If the spool gets  emptied until the diameter is cut in half and the drag is not backed off, we go from 25 to 50 lbs of drag,   The force on the gears and dog won't change, but the frame and spindle is being pulled on twice as hard.  

On this particular reel,  the dog works against the pinion gear, instead of a ratchet.  I am assuming it is brass or some other softer metal so that it will not damage the pinion.  The smaller the ratchet,  the more leverage from the spool, and the more force on the dog for a given drag setting.    Pinions have  an angled  tooth edge which further decreases the effective diameter of the pinion as a ratchet. Not to mention a curved shape that limits the contact area.   I believe the Tiburon kit still uses the stock graphite plate that should  flex a bit  as the dog shaft gets loaded up, causing some misalignment.
 
If you take the ratio of spool diameter to effective ratchet diameter  and multiply by  the drag setting,  you will have the maximum force on the dog.     Without having the reel in front of me, but for purposes of illustration here is something in the ballpark:

Similar sized reel  with a three inch full spool set at 25 lbs, with a pinion  at .5 inch diameter,   But after accounting for the pitch diameter, and the pitch angle of the tooth around 20 degrees,  and the position of the dog shaft,  we end up with an effective "ratchet" diameter of .375 inch:
(3/.375) * 25 =  200 lbs of force on the dog.

The actual numbers for the TLD 20-2 will be different,  but should be in this ballpark.

I would not  personally stand very long under that dog assembly if it were holding up  200 lbs of weight above me.

There is a lot more force on a dog assembly than most folks realize.   It is not hard to design a proper anti-reverse system, but this seems to be the weak spot in many reels. 

erikpowell

Bula,
Sunset would do that with a 25lb preset  ::)
Mag frames are sweet and help eliminate frame failure, but its still just a stock graphite right side with a single dog & post embedded in plastic.
IMHO they are not much stronger than the original graphite frame. It's the second weakest link and most likely failure especially after a frame upgrade. (carbontex upgrade considered)
Awhile back Rothmar double dogged some TLDs and that was brilliant. I have to check in on that one again as I've been away awhile, and I have lots of TLDs :)
But I don't think the side plates will ever be worthy of fishing 25lb+ and I believe the spool shaft is too thin to reliably fish as a 50-80lb reel.
That said, I still try not to exceed 18-20lbs on my hotrodded 20 2speeds with 65lb braid.
Any more than that is why they make Tiagras  ;)


mhc

Good to see you back Erik! Was it a shattered TLD 50 frame you posted photos of a short year or two ago - including the hand lined YFT that broke it? I had a quick look but couldn't find the post.

Mike
It can't be too difficult - a lot of people do it.

erikpowell

Bula Mike,
Thanks! You have a good memory but I think that was 2011... maybe earlier!
My buddy here broke a TLD30 frame a couple years back too.
Based on my experiences and Bosso Alan's input, I only really use my 20's much anymore.
The narrower the spool the stronger the frame with these reels.
Still great reels though!

boon

How do you even do that to a handle arm? Only thing I can think of is fishing the rail, handle at the top of the rotation and full-weight leaning on it.

The reel is not a winch, lift the fish with the rod...

mrwilson99

I have a 30 I mainly use for trolling, after seeing this I am having second thoughts. Mine is bone stock.
David