How to spine a 6ft Unlimited E-glass rod blank???

[Tightlines667]

Butt of blank on the ground/floor, your hand on the tip top. Hold the rod at slight to moderate angle and apply a bit of pressure with your hand to get a slight bend, with a unlimited rod the bend will be almost unnoticeable then roll the blank with your other hand. You may need to place your foot close to or touching the the butt of the rod when rolling it to keep it from sliding out on the floor. When you roll the blank you should not have a even feeling of smoothness around the whole blank, you should notice as you roll the blank that there is a bit of a sticking point, meaning that it rolls easier/smoother through most of the blank but is a bit harder to roll at some point. Mark that point with a pen, chalk or a piece of tape. Repeat the process a second time and if the sticking point is at the same place on the blank then you have found the spline. With a bend in the blank the sticking point should be at the opposite side of the curve/bend and that will be the spline/spine of the rod.

This is how I did it on my stub 80s... short/stiff blanks.  I also, taped the guides in place, and loaded the rod up, with a line through the rollers to make final adjustments to the spacing, and rolled the rod slightly each way to confirm the spline. 

Though, in hindsight it was probably not as important on this type of rod.

John

[JnM Fishing]

Butt of blank on the ground/floor, your hand on the tip top. Hold the rod at slight to moderate angle and apply a bit of pressure with your hand to get a slight bend, with a unlimited rod the bend will be almost unnoticeable then roll the blank with your other hand. You may need to place your foot close to or touching the the butt of the rod when rolling it to keep it from sliding out on the floor. When you roll the blank you should not have a even feeling of smoothness around the whole blank, you should notice as you roll the blank that there is a bit of a sticking point, meaning that it rolls easier/smoother through most of the blank but is a bit harder to roll at some point. Mark that point with a pen, chalk or a piece of tape. Repeat the process a second time and if the sticking point is at the same place on the blank then you have found the spline. With a bend in the blank the sticking point should be at the opposite side of the curve/bend and that will be the spline/spine of the rod.

This is how I did it on my stub 80s... short/stiff blanks.  I also, taped the guides in place, and loaded the rod up, with a line through the rollers to make final adjustments to the spacing, and rolled the rod slightly each way to confirm the spline. 

Though, in hindsight it was probably not as important on this type of rod.

John

I am building a stand up shark rod- overkill, i know... but just cause... If the spine is not found what repercussions would i face in terms of rod longevity and durability?

[SoCalAngler]

IMO the the higher the drag on a reel and rod the more important it is to find the spline of the rod to keep it from twisting or giving that twisting feeling.

Anyone that says it is not important I would not have them build me a rod or buy a blank from them if they did in deed manufacture the blanks. Well ok maybe a trout rod for 2-4 lb test it is not that important I will give you that but for saltwater gear and especially big game gear I feel it is a must.

[SoCalAngler]

Not finding the slpine on a rod means nothing to the longevity of said rod. But it means everything in the comfort, pulling power and feel while hooked up to a big fish.

[JnM Fishing]

Ok i put 50 ibs in a book sack and re attempted the horse method listed earlier. I noticed that when i flexed / bounced the rod and twisted it one side isn't as stiff as the rest and one side is extremely stiff.. which of these is the spine? Im new to this rod building game...

[Tightlines667]

I didn't mean to say it's not important, and in fact it may be especially so on heavier gear, but rather that given how short and stiff my rod blanks are, there was very little difference between the 4 points of the spine, and a hardly perceivable affect when completely off spine.

Spining is an important first step.  Part of the reason I spent so much time checking them.  

Though, it may be less important on a blank that has a barely notable spine.

It's funny, ever since I learned how to spine, spine, I find myself checking it on every rod I pick up at the tackle store.  A lot of factory rods are not spined correctly, but some are.

You may want to practice spining a lighter rod that you have laying around first, to get the feel for it?

John

[JnM Fishing]

i found a spot that flexes with a lot less resistance when trying the horse method. Is this the spine?

[SoCalAngler]

Jn,

It is super easy to find the spline with the method I listed above. No need to over think it. The harder area of the blank to roll is the spline and should be on the top of a finished rod where you mount the guides for a conventional or on the bottom for a spinning rod.

Tightlines666,

My remarks were not just pointed at you per-say, rather to anyone that feels finding the spline on a big game rod is not that important.

[JnM Fishing]

Jn,

It is super easy to find the spline with the method I listed above. No need to over think it. The harder area of the blank to roll is the spline and should be on the top of a finished rod where you mount the guides for a conventional or on the bottom for a spinning rod.

Tightlines666,

My remarks were not just pointed at you per-say, rather to anyone that feels finding the spline on a big game rod is not that important.

On so the part that is the stiffest is the side i should put my guides on for a conventional setup?

[sdlehr]

The spine is the plane the rod flexes in most readily. Once you determine the spine it doesn't matter if you place the guides on the top or the bottom, you just want the flex of the rod in line with the guides so there's no twisting when there's a heavy load. I'm doing the same build with a Super Seeker 2x4 (one of these days I might finish this build) and will use spiral the guides to cut down on the twist under a heavy load, which I hope to experience often....

[SoCalAngler]

Jn,

It is super easy to find the spline with the method I listed above. No need to over think it. The harder area of the blank to roll is the spline and should be on the top of a finished rod where you mount the guides for a conventional or on the bottom for a spinning rod.

Tightlines666,

My remarks were not just pointed at you per-say, rather to anyone that feels finding the spline on a big game rod is not that important.

On so the part that is the stiffest is the side i should put my guides on for a conventional setup?

IMO yes. That is how all my rods are built, both customs and factory wrapped.

[SoCalAngler]

The spine is the plane the rod flexes in most readily. Once you determine the spine it doesn't matter if you place the guides on the top or the bottom, you just want the flex of the rod in line with the guides so there's no twisting when there's a heavy load. I'm doing the same build with a Super Seeker 2x4 (one of these days I might finish this build) and will spiral the guides to cut down on the twist under a heavy load, which I hope to experience often....

IMO the spline it the stiffest area on a blank not the area that "flexes most readily"

[Tightlines667]

Tightlines666,

My remarks were not just pointed at you per-say, rather to anyone that feels finding the spline on a big game rod is not that important.

Rodga.

It is my understanding that rods will have 2 separate planes, roughly at 90deg to each other.  The 'effective spine', as Dale Clemens calls it, is the primary spine and is the angle where the rod bend is the stiffest.  This bend will also have a higher frequency vibration, and will have 1 side where the bend is stiffer.  This is the angle, and side that you want the guides and reel aligned up with since it will resist any twisting forces the most.  The secondary spine has opposite characteristics, it is the softest, and has the lowest frequency resonation.  This angle also has a softer, and a stiffer side, though the difference is less noticable.

Now, each of these planes can, and do often vary along the length if the blank, so when we spine the rod, we are looking for the average spine throughout the entire length, when it is loaded up (what you expect to fish it at..maybe 30% of line weight, or up to 50% of the line class rating).  Loading it more strongly will typically move the average spine point towards the butt, and vise versa.  

On a fly rod, or very light/whippy rod, when casting loading is the major consideration,  you want to load it with the weight it will experience during a cast, rather then a fight when to determine the spine location.  This may result in the tip section being more important, or not depending on the blank.

These same concepts apply to customizing golf club shafts, or tuning them to your swing.  Look up the specs on composite golf shafts, and you can find info/graphs on the major and minor spines of the shaft.

Having said that, it doesn't need to be the complicated.  Just check it as previously described, and mark the point where it is stiffest when it is bent.  Align your guides and reel seat with that mark.

John


I attached a few photos of Dale Clemens' description from his book.  Hopefully, I am not violating any copyright laws here?

[JnM Fishing]

Tightlines666,

My remarks were not just pointed at you per-say, rather to anyone that feels finding the spline on a big game rod is not that important.

Rodga.

It is my understanding that rods will have 2 separate planes, roughly at 90deg to each other.  The 'effective spine', as Dale Clemens calls it, is the primary spine and is the angle where the rod bend is the stiffest.  This bend will also have a higher frequency vibration, and will have 1 side where the bend is stiffer.  This is the angle, and side that you want the guides and reel aligned up with since it will resist any twisting forces the most.  The secondary spine has opposite characteristics, it is the softest, and has the lowest frequency resonation.  This angle also has a softer, and a stiffer side, though the difference is less noticable.

Now, each of these planes can, and do often vary along the length if the blank, so when we spine the rod, we are looking for the average spine throughout the entire length, when it is loaded up (what you expect to fish it at..maybe 30% of line weight, or up to 50% of the line class rating).  Loading it more strongly will typically move the average spine point towards the butt, and vise versa.  

On a fly rod, or very light/whippy rod, when casting loading is the major consideration,  you want to load it with the weight it will experience during a cast, rather then a fight when to determine the spine location.  This may result in the tip section being more important, or not depending on the blank.

These same concepts apply to customizing golf club shafts, or tuning them to your swing.  Look up the specs on composite golf shafts, and you can find info/graphs on the major and minor spines of the shaft.

Having said that, it doesn't need to be the complicated.  Just check it as previously described, and mark the point where it is stiffest when it is bent.  Align your guides and reel seat with that mark.

John


I attached a few photos of Dale Clemens' description from his book.  Hopefully, I am not violating any copyright laws here?


[/quote

Finding the spine of an unlimited rod is easier said than done.... that sucker is stiff as a board...

[JnM Fishing]

Im going to see if Mudhole will let me return the Unlimited Class blank and replace it with a 80-130.