WIDE TIBURON 14/0 and 16/0 SENATOR FRAME AND SPOOL KITS?

[Vintage Offshore Tackle]

That's 10.  Halfway there, and enough to ask Tiburon to do the engineering and develop a cost estimate, but before we can ask them to begin, we need to decide: How wide? 

The frame width (between the side plates) of the standard 16/0 is 5.0".  For a point of reference, Daron, would you please measure the width between the side plates of your Everol 20/0 between the side plates and the spool diameter?

Thanks, and Merry Christmas!

Randy

[Shark Hunter]

The Diameter of the 16/0 is pretty much the same. The width is an inch wider on the Everol.
Outside dimensions are roughly 7x7" on the Everol. The Gear case sticks out another inch.
The 20/0 spool is 6x6". The Meat and Potatoes is in the frame.
I know the spool needs to be Heavy Duty on the Tiburon Conversion.
Thanks for taking this on Randy.
Imagine a reel the size of a gallon of paint.
The arbor on the 20/0 spool is massive. They claim it holds 1000 yards of 300lb test mono.

[1badf350]

This is gonna be awesome! I agree with John Taylor that serial numbers would be nice. I think a highly polished silver would be a great color choice to kinda blend with the original chrome trim of the Senators.

[Tightlines667]

6"X6" sounds like a nice round number for the spool.  Someone said square spools are good.  

The frame, especially the stand, and reel foot will have to be strong.  You may want to consider a stronger foot design, or one that bolts to the frame with inserts, such as that from the Penn 130VIS?  Or maybe something simpler?  Rod braces may provide the necessary strength and stability for the standard foot design, but we may need longer braces, or find a reel, such as the Everol that has existing braces to do the job.  Maybe someone could make Stainless lugs for the project? 

Then again, the stock chromed lugs, and braces would match all the other chromed hardware, unless of course folks hot-rod it with all the aftermarket SS or Titanium parts that are already available. 

Probably best to keep this project as simple as possible though.

John

[Shark Hunter]

We need to stick to a plan here.
I know Tiburon Traditionally makes their spools black.
I'll take what I can get to keep the cost down.
I would not go any wider than 6" on the spool.
That is a lot of weight when line is added.
The Everol spool is made a bit different. It is hollow with a solid stainless shaft that attaches to the gearbox.
The drag discs are also mounted to the spool and the drag lever just pushes on the spool to apply drag.
We are limited on the spool design based on the bearings on the 16/0.
I just think it needs to robust as possible.
The stand made into the frame should be ample enough as long as it has four mounting holes with ss hardware.
Just my opinions.

[Vintage Offshore Tackle]

Thanks to everyone for their well-considered comments.  I am just thinking out loud, but here are my thoughts so far:

I have not spoken with Tom yet about the possibility of making matching side plates, but if he might consider it, it would be great to have all of the parts anodized at the same place at the same time to ensure a good match.  I had planned on everyone using the stock Penn side plate assemblies, including the rod brace parts, and I would guess that's what Tom would expect if he makes plates as well.

I am on board with numbering the kits so long as I get number 1 of 20.  Just kidding...maybe we could auction off the rights to number 1, and give the proceeds to Alan's kid's fishing charity?

Silver seems like a good choice on the color.  I think that I would prefer a matching silver spool, but if everyone else wants black, as John has suggested, that's OK too.

Because there is no spool spacing adjustment on the big Senators except for the little shims that go on the spool shafts, I was going to ask Tiburon to make the frames "old-style", that is without the flange that replaces the inner trim rings, to avoid adding any structure that might affect the spacing between the side plates.

John and I are on the same wavelength regarding the foot.  I had already priced out the 30-130VS stand, 264-130ST gasket, 33C-130VSX clamp kit and six 63-30T screws on Mo's website and at retail, it adds up to a lot of money ($104.50), but I would guess that either Mo might be willing to help out with a good deal for twenty sets for this project, or that Tiburon can buy the parts wholesale from Penn, or that Tiburon could sell the frames drilled and threaded for the parts and we could each source the Penn parts on our own.  One other possibility might be to machine an integral base into the frame and let Tiburon produce the clamp kit.

I agree with Daron and John about the 6" X 6" spool.  Tiburon machines their spools out of a solid billet of aluminum and can make the arbors as large as necessary without increasing the cost, since they are paying for the whole block of aluminum anyway.    It is my understanding that the big Senators were designed to fish 130 lb. line, with somewhere in the ballpark of 50 lbs. of drag.  I am not aware of anything heavier than 200 lb. Dacron being in common usage back in the 1930's or even now.  I am not an engineer, but I would guess that increasing the width of the spool will put additional stress on the bearings (and maybe the ends of the spool shaft) when the line is pulling under heavy drag from the outer edges of the spool.  

I realize that the state of the art Everol may be able to handle extreme loads, but I do not want to lead anyone to believe that they can fish 100 lbs. of drag with 300 lb. line with this reel.  I believe that Tiburon will be able to design the frame or spool to withstand the additional stress without driving the price out of sight, but I am concerned about pushing the stock Penn parts beyond their limits.  I would guess that most of these reels will never see saltwater, but I am planning to instruct Tiburon to engineer the frames and spools to safely fish 130.  What does everyone think about that?

Thanks again, and Merry Christmas!

Randy

[Yogi_fish808]

I don't have a boat....or any use for a 14/0 let alone a 20/0. But jesus you know how wide kits make us Hawaii anglers feel all tingly inside.

[Vintage Offshore Tackle]

I don't have a boat....or any use for a 14/0 let alone a 20/0. But jesus you know how wide kits make us Hawaii anglers feel all tingly inside.

Kyle, think of the possibilities with a wide 16/0 and a drone...you could fish Ni'ihau from Oahu.

[Islandgypsy]

Randy..think it should go without saying No.1 has your name on it ... Merry Christmas Ohana!
Greg

[handi2]

One for me too.

Randy can you PayPal me for whatever I owe on the narrow kits that are now finished.

Keith Rawson

[Vintage Offshore Tackle]

One for me too.

Randy can you PayPal me for whatever I owe on the narrow kits that are now finished.

Keith Rawson

Keith, I just send you a PayPal invoice and a PM.

Thank you, and Merry Christmas!

Randy

[mikeysm]

Randy i would prefer the new style frame. If we buy the parts separatly the inner rings are 30 dollars each plus shipping. If we get the side plates made with adjustment built in it will be cheaper. That money can go into the reel seat. Just looking at both sides and each have their problems fix one create another.


Mike

[Swami805]

I'm no engineer but those reels held up with metal bars, small screws and a metal foot held in by small screws. Surely machined aluminum would be stronger. A reel foot screwed to the frame should be up to the task. I'm sure the tiburon guys could come up with something.
Trying to think of a way to commit to that much cake at this point not in the cards. Best of luck pulling this all together

[thorhammer]

Daron, can you check my brace kit on the Everol for dimensional fit? As I recall it is probably an inch longer than stock and I may have even cut the eye hooks down. They may work for this and the aluminum barrels could be anodized (that was my plan at some point). 

[54bullseye]

I think also Randy should have # 1 then just go in order that people signed up for them ???  For me silver spool just like frame would look good IMHO. I also agree no wider than 6" spool. I guess as long as we are going for it hot rodding the drags and possibly a stainless steel bridge and having double dogs like Daron does would help complete the package !! Oh yeah one last thing would be one of those neat  molded grasps / handles I have seen on some other posts maybe made oversized from stock Senator grasps in black and white or black white and clear !!!!     John Taylor