Troubleshooting Saltiga 30T Issue

[xaf]

I have an older model Saltiga 30T that i have used for many years.  Recently I have experienced a problem with the pinion gear not engaging correctly.  At times when fishing for snapper I fish the reel in free spool and will engage the clutch lever when a fish strikes.  Recently on 3 separate occasions I have lost fish because the pinion gear doesn't engage when the clutch lever is engaged.  This results in a loud grinding sound as the gears try to engage and the line playing out from the spool.

I have pretty much narrowed the problem down to the pinion gear being worn but am wondering if I should also change the main drive gear and the clutch lever spring. The main drive gear does not appear to be worn and the clutch lever seems to working correctly. I don't want to replace parts needlessly but I want make sure I fix the issue properly.

Any suggestions or help would be appreciated.

[RowdyW]

That's pretty rough on the spool shaft, pinion gear, main gear, dog, & gear sleeve. The reel should be fished with the clutch lever engaged & the drag backed off if you want the fish to run a little. Then tighten the drag to slow down or stop the fish. The clutch lever is not a control for the clutch, it engages the pinion to the spool shaft. The drag washers are your actual clutch. All the above must have taken quite a beating. It's like taking your car & flooring the gas pedal & then putting it into drive.

[handi2]

That's pretty rough on the spool shaft, pinion gear, main gear, dog, & gear sleeve. The reel should be fished with the clutch lever engaged & the drag backed off if you want the fish to run a little. Then tighten the drag to slow down or stop the fish. The clutch lever is not a control for the clutch, it engages the pinion to the spool shaft. The drag washers are your actual clutch. All the above must have taken quite a beating. It's like taking your car & flooring the gas pedal & then putting it into drive.

Well said....

[boon]

+1 for what's been said, slamming a star drag reel into gear when a fish is running is a terrible idea. Either halt the spool with your thumb for a moment first, or, a much better idea, get a lever drag reel instead.

[SoCalAngler]

+1 for what's been said, slamming a star drag reel into gear when a fish is running is a terrible idea. Either halt the spool with your thumb for a moment first, or, a much better idea, get a lever drag reel instead.

I guess no one fishes live bait while like we do here on the left coast. Fly lining live baits is probably about 85% of how we fish here in So Cal and Baja. Hook on a live bait, cast or lob it out, let it swim as freely as possible and when picked up by a fish then engage the reel. I know I may be new to this, I have only been fishing like this for about 40 years now and have never slowed down the spool with my thumb before engaging the reel. Not with a star drag or lever drag and my reels have held up fine.

Not to say you don't have a issue with the gears in your reel but for some to say you need to slow down the spool before engaging the reel seems a bit off base to me. Like I said fly lining live bait is pretty much a staple here and I have caught mackerel to marlin without issue or damaging gears.  

[SoCalAngler]

xaf,

My guess is the ARB is or went bad in that reel. Part number 42 in the schematics and you may need part number 46 also. Once the ARB went bad and if you kept fishing that reel you may have messed up the pinion, main gear or both. Also the backup dog part number 33 (A/R pawl) may have gotten damaged and that could cause that grinding sound.

[Tightlines667]

In my estimation lever drags are nicer for the type of 'dink bait, and live bait trolling I intend to do.  They allow you to rig the bait with just enough tension at freespool to prevent an overrun when the fish grabs the bait.  I will likely use a light rubber band when 'dink baiting' ballyhoo (rigged with a small hook/weight hidden in the head, or a bridled circle).  That way I can leave the reel in freespool, with the clicker on.  After you give the fish a chance to turn, run, swallow the bait, then you can quickly push the lever to the preset strike position to set the hook.  

When trolling larger 2-6lb Skipjack , Bonito, or Kawa, I will likely leave the lever forward enough to keep the bait from taking line when slow trolling, and use the lever to set the hook after a marlin has time to turn tye bait, swallow it, turn, and run.  

When drift fishing dead baits, or small live baits I typically freeline the bait back.  I have caught a number of larger fish freelining while chunking using Senators in the past, mostly large sharks on the big live baits, and Yellowfin Tuna on dead bait on smaller live bait.  We used to just throw 'em in gear whether the clicker/spool was stopped, paying out slowly, or was screaming.  Of course this was before I got into servicing reels more seriously.  I am sure the damage that is often visable on the spools, and sometimes pinions, and jack plates can be attributed to this abuse.  It seems to me that in most cases, one should be able to stop/pause the spool momentarily (directly with a gloved hand, or by pulling some line off faster then it is being paid out, then stopping the spool) before engaging the reel.  Though this is not always practical.  Many times when trolling, I get hit while the reel is in freespool. This happens either when letting the line out/setting a bait, or when I purposely quickly throw it into freespool after a hit, but no hook up, to illicit another strike (which by the way is very effective at times, especially for Wahoo).  To avoid a birdsnest, and buy myself a little time, I always ensure the clicker are on when the reel is in freespool (one of my cardinal rules).  When this happens, I typically try to quickly stop tye spool with my thumb or gloved hand, wbile simultaneously thriwing tye reel into gear, or moving tye lever to strike.  Usually I can stop or slow the spool briefly, but many times this doesn't happen.  

Now, there is no doubt that it is easier on the reel to tighten the star, and already have it engaged, but in my estimation, this is also bad practice in that it breaks my second cardnal rule when dealing with big fish... Don't ever adjust, and especial increase the drag when a fish is on a hard run or the spool is moving fast under pressure (especially when closer to you).  In my experience, more big fish are lost this way, then any other, except perhaps during the end game.

When asked what can cause damage/what not to do by fishing Reel customers I usually say 3 or 4 things...

1)fish the reel within specs
2)on star drags don't throw the reel into gear suddenly when the spool is moving
3)Don't crank the reel when line is being paid out, especially if it is pushed to full or max drag
4)don't drop the reel on a hard surface, when fully loaded

Of course reels are just tools for the job at hand, and every job and situation is a bit different.  Everyone learns to do what works best for them, and sometimes in the heat of the moment it is easy to abuse the equipment.  On the other hand, the equipment shouod be able to withstand some abuse without failing, especially if you are fishing the reel within or below specs, rather then pushing it to its limits or beyond.

These are just some thoughts that come to my mind when thinking about 'proper techique' based on my personal experiences and are not necessary the absolute correct methodologies.  In fact, I like to think I am still learning the best ways to use the tools and techniques of the game.  

Sorry for the long post.

John

[boon]

Just for a start, assuming your star drag is at "fight drag" (the equivalent of "strike" on a lever drag) then when you put the reel in gear you instantly go from no drag to quite a lot and shock-load every single connection between the reel and the fish. If you have the drag backed off then you may as well have the reel in gear and just wind the drag all the way out since you have to increase it anyway.

Obviously a lot of people do it and catch fish, but there are better tools available... you can install a screw with a hammer but it doesn't make it a good idea

[Bryan Young]

That's a lot of stress on the reel, but many of us have fished this way in the past and will fish this way in the future.  Some with no effects and some with dire effects.

there are several things at play for grinding gears.  Assuming that the handle does not spin backwards while doing this.  You may have a gear alignment problem.  Therefore, I would first check the gear sleeve shaft bearing and the anti-reverse bearing.  Does the gear sleeve wobble with the gears removed?  If so, you will likely have a bearing issue.

Second, I would check the yoke and the yoke posts.  Are the yoke posts bent slightly or worn?  You may want to stretch the pinion springs a little.

Third, the pinion gear, Inside the pinion gear and how it fits on the spool shaft and any wear on the yoke or pinion gear where it mates with the yoke.  Is it fit or does it wobble.  How does the pinion gear engage with the spool to engage the spool?  Inspect the shoulder of the spool shaft and in the pinion gear.  Likely they have rolled edges that may need to be re-filed.

I suspect it's one of the above.  I don't think the problem is between the main gear and the pinion gear as the gear teeth are always mated.  If the gears are chattering between each other, then you will definitely see evidence of this by rounded tips of the gears.

[xaf]

Thanks for all the input.  I'll take a close look at everything mentioned when I tear the reel down.

If fishing star drag reels in free spool is wrong then I know a lot of people who are doing it wrong and have been for along time.  I've been doing it for nearly 40 years along with a bunch of other people I know here in Florida.  A few factors to consider:  I am bottom fishing for snapper that are seldom more then 20 lbs, not fishing for big heavy fast fish such as tuna.  Second, the reel is not "slammed" in gear, it is usually engaged when you feel the fish take the bait and slowly move away.  Third, the drag is not locked down or set overly tight, so there is not a real heavy "shock" on the gear train when engaged.

As I mentioned in the original post, I have been using this reel for a number of years.  Whether I'm using the reel right or wrong, my goal was to get input as to which parts may be worn or damaged and causing the problem.   I believe I accomplished that.   Once the reel is fixed I plan to continue to fish it the way I have been.  If I need to I'll repair the reel again in another 8 -10 years.

Thanks again for all the input.

[Keta]

The gears are always engaged, the ecentric disengages the spool from the pinion, and doing this should not dammage gear teeth.

I back off the drag star when needing to let a Pacific halibut run before "setting" the hook (I use circle hooks and just engage the drag to set the hook) and have always adjusted the drag with the star during a fight, but I have seen people loose fish that way, mostly due to not backing off the star at the boat.