question for other reel techs that run a business.

[Pro Reel]

Hey guys, I have been wondering how some of you handle a problem that I run into frequently. The problem I have is customers waiting way to long to send reels in and then thinking " it just needs a good cleaning". I recently got a box full of reels that the customer told me he thought they were in decent shape but needed cleaned up and serviced. His hope was that I could get them all in great shape for just the cost of a service. 4 reels are toriums. 3 are tld's, the rest 8000 size spheros spin reels. All the reels felt a little grindy and had visible corrosion issues. I opened up the 4 toriums and found that all the bearings were rusty, the AR clutch and sleeve was rusty. The gears had corrosion on them. several small parts also have corrosion. Externally I can see that all the spin reels need new bails and bail arm because of corrosion there and very stiff, hard to open bails. I know all the reels need new bearings and gears. I've tried to explain this to the customer and sent pictures of some damage. It looks like the parts cost that each reel most likely needs is over $100 bucks each and might even be more than the cost of new reels. The bails and arms of the spin reels are almost $100 just for those parts alone. My problem is I don't want to go a bit further with taking these things apart and doing any cleaning without knowing he will pay for it. he wants to know exactly what each reel needs and exactly what it will cost. You can't know that without cleaning them up, replacing the worst parts and then trying them out to see if they got better or they still need new gears also. If I do all that he will owe me the full service charge but might not want to pay anything if they are not fixed and probably won't be willing to pay for all the parts they do need.
So, whats your shop policy for dealing with this. Do you offer a discount for inspection but not able to fix? Do you charge full service fee? do you do it free but send it back as a bag of parts if they don't want to pay for what it needs?

[Yogi_fish808]

Communication is key when receiving reels for service in the mail. With new customers, I ask for descriptions and CLEAR pics of each reel being sent in and typically limit it to 2 reels at a time. I'm clear that in reasonable condition my price will be x-amount flat rate + cost of parts. But if it is in what I deem as bad condition where I need to put a lot of extra labor in and source parts then I need to charge accordingly. Never feel bad about asking a fair price for your time. For return customers I may be more flexible, especially if they're bringing back reels I've already been into. I will always do the absolute best job on every reel I take in and will go the extra mile, but I can't work miracles for cheap on every badly neglected reel.

If the reels are so bad you flat out do not feel it's worth it then close them back up. Sometimes customers have unrealistic expectations and don't understand what goes into reel repair. You may need to eat return shipping on this one, but just learn for next time how to go about it better. I also do not service spinners other than penn SS and Z series as newer ones simply aren't worth it for me to work on due to the amount of time it takes to do things right on say a new Stradic 3000 and there are too many small plastic parts that are prone to damage.

[Pro Reel]

That's similar to what I already do, other than asking for pictures first. I don't have a policy that they even need to contact me before shipping because we are open and ready year round. My website does clearly describe that any needed parts or extra labor will be additional charges, but it's getting customers to be realistic with expectations that's a big problem. I hate to just close a box up and tell the customer that they wasted their money shipping it to me, but sometimes I know that would probably be best. Some of the parts this guys reel probably needs are not even available anymore. The problem is I won't know for sure if I could clean those parts up good enough without actually doing it. Once I try I either have to not charge for the time if it doesn't fix it or charge a reduced inspection fee for trying.

[exp2000]

I do a full tear down and calculate the cost of parts. I also allow a little extra to cover the cost of the odd surprise.

If they insist on an exact costing you might want to allow a little more to cover your six.

Then it is up to them if they wish to proceed.

In the event that a client decides not to proceed, they usually leave the reel with me so at least you have some spare parts for your trouble but you might consider a basic inspection fee in the event that they want the reel back so you are not working for nothing.

From the condition of the reels you have described it seems to me that even a cursory inspection would raise serious doubts over the viability of economical repair and the client has misrepresented the situation.

I do a full factory restoration that takes 2 to 3 hours so if a client suggests to me that the reel just needs some oil thrown at it, I explain to them that this is not the way I work but there are plenty of other guys that might be willing to help them.
~

[Pro Reel]

This is pretty much exactly where I'm at in my shop. I end up with lots of parts reels but most of the time it's not an entire boxfull that cost $50 bucks to ship. Sometimes they just want them back in the best shape I can do without parts but that scares me because in the past I have had mad customers that seamed to think it would be better than it was. Lots of times I will get reels in that feel buzzy to me. That's my description of light gear wear that's not quite grindy yet but not new reel smooth anymore. trying to discuss this with customers is often frustrating because many say they didn't recall it felling that way. They thought it was just time for a "good cleaning". I have grown to hate that term. LOL

[akfish]

This happens all the time. I always tell people sending in reels to include their phone number and tell them that I will call with a cost estimate once the reels arrive. I almost never give an estimate until I have seen the reels. The problem arrises when people say they don't want me to service their reels at my cost and want the reels back. I've been told more than once that **I** need to pay the return shipping charges since I can't fix their reels. I won't do that...

[Decker]

This is pretty much exactly where I'm at in my shop. I end up with lots of parts reels but most of the time it's not an entire boxfull that cost $50 bucks to ship. Sometimes they just want them back in the best shape I can do without parts but that scares me because in the past I have had mad customers that seamed to think it would be better than it was. Lots of times I will get reels in that feel buzzy to me. That's my description of light gear wear that's not quite grindy yet but not new reel smooth anymore. trying to discuss this with customers is often frustrating because many say they didn't recall it felling that way. They thought it was just time for a "good cleaning". I have grown to hate that term. LOL

I sent it a reel recently that I thought was pretty good, but had rusted bearings and sand.  My initial reaction was disbelief when I heard it from the tech, but my better judgement was to follow his advice.

As a customer (not a reel pro) this seems like a question of trust more than anything.   I would set some standards or functional quality that make sense to you and stick to them.  If the customer doesn't want to do what you recommend, he can pay for return shipping.  If it is possible to keep good computer records, you could send out "maintenance reminder" postcards with a small discount incentive.  I had a great auto mechanic that did that.

[Bryan Young]

Hi Kevin,

Like many others, based on the feel of the reel, exterior and interior condition of the reel, before cleaning, I have an idea of the what it will take to fix the reel and come up with a rough cost of anticipated parts plus labor.  At that point, I contact the customer and ask them if they are willing to pay for the repairs assuming that parts are available and the reel is indeed fixable.  In some cases, the customer would want the reel fixed due to sentimental reason no matter the cost.  Proceed.

And there are those other cases where the reel is either unfixable or the cost exceed the cost of the purchasing a new reel, many of those reels are donated for parts or trash.  In these cases, I don't charge for the inspection.  I just feel bad that they just sent in these reels, paid for postage, then get charge for inspection of a reel that is unusable...  I would feel like it's adding salt to the wound.  If they want the reels back, then I will definitely charge them the return postage, but that is it.  In the long-run I will likely get more business from this individual on a more regular basis (before the reels get into these horrible condition) if I don't nickel and dime them.  And in many cases, from this, I will get several pre-use service on their new reels.  Of course, I deal mostly with saltwater reels, so corrosion and salt are issues that are common, and can be reduced with a pre-serviced reel.

[Bryan Young]

I will also advise in writing that by cleaning a reel, and new gears are not available or the don't want to pay the cost for new gear that the reels will often feel rougher because the old caked on hard grease was acting like carteledge between our bones dampening the feel and sound. Clean that all off and applying fresh grease will have a lubricating and not necessarily a dampening effect. It's the same as your buzzing feeling I think. I do it in writing because it covers me from the I told you so versus you never told me that kind of conversation. 

[foakes]

Hi Kevin --

Just my opinions...

YOU set the terms up front -- not the client.  

Clients need to know up front that I will inspect a reel for free -- give them an experienced opinion if it is worth repairing/restoring, or not.  

We can't blame a client for wanting something fixed cheaply, that is human nature.  But the reality is that the reel is a tool used for recreation -- many times it will cost more than a reel is worth to restore.  And that is OK with most folks in the case of nostalgic or older reels.

I choose not to do anything except a complete service, restore, and repair.  No issues that way (you know, you do a drag upgrade, and the client calls back saying that now their gears are making noise after you worked on their reel).  It is all or nothing.

Most of my clients are either previous, new friends, referrals, or folks who understand this already.  

Got to remember, Asia can pump out 5 new reels for the cost of your service on an old plastic dog that you cannot even get parts for -- let alone break a few when disassembling.

For new public clients, not friends and members of our site -- I charge a flat fee for various types of reels, plus parts and shipping.  Plus -- if not picked up, paid for, or claimed within 30 days of completion -- there is a statement to the effect that the reel will be sold to offset service and parts cost.

If a client wants a reel returned without me working on it -- they pay the cost of shipping before it leaves my shop.

This is just a hobby that I have enjoyed for around 40 years -- so maybe these issues have happened only a couple of times, to be honest.  Generally -- good communication, a few pics, 2-way trust, and turning down jobs that our experience tells us are just losers from the start -- are key.

If I perceive that a client is not ready for the level of experience, professionalism, and completeness that I prefer to do -- I just let them know in a nice way up front that they are probably not ready for my type of service -- and recommend that they contact the manufacturer, or someone else.

You cannot be all things to all people.  Find your comfort zone, don't sell yourself short, expect to be appreciated for the skill and work you provide, and learn who may try to take advantage of your good nature up front -- and avoid them.

No drama, just cover your backside -- and move on.

Plus, I always try to help folks as much as possible -- and always give them a little extra, or something for free or at no charge.  


I generally try not to over-promise -- and always try to exceed their expectations.

Best,

Fred

[philaroman]

not a pro, but may have an idea:

all you guys w/ websites should have an "UNREASONABLE EXPECTATIONS" photo gallery to curtail foolish optimism...  maybe even combine efforts to create & host a web-page...  would even have more authority, if half-dozen reputable professionals across the World, all said the same thing...  good place to advertise your individual shops, as well

[Bryan Young]

not a pro, but may have an idea:

all you guys w/ websites should have an "UNREASONABLE EXPECTATIONS" photo gallery to curtail foolish optimism...  maybe even combine efforts to create & host a web-page...  would even have more authority, if half-dozen reputable professionals across the World, all said the same thing...  good place to advertise your individual shops, as well

That would be a good post here...Just add pictures of the shocker, unfixables in one post, and functional but not perfect in another post.

[alantani]

tell him this....... 

Hey guys, I have been wondering how some of you handle a problem that I run into frequently. The problem I have is customers waiting way to long to send reels in and then thinking " it just needs a good cleaning". I recently got a box full of reels that the customer told me he thought they were in decent shape but needed cleaned up and serviced. His hope was that I could get them all in great shape for just the cost of a service. 4 reels are toriums. 3 are tld's, the rest 8000 size spheros spin reels. All the reels felt a little grindy and had visible corrosion issues. I opened up the 4 toriums and found that all the bearings were rusty, the AR clutch and sleeve was rusty. The gears had corrosion on them. several small parts also have corrosion. Externally I can see that all the spin reels need new bails and bail arm because of corrosion there and very stiff, hard to open bails. I know all the reels need new bearings and gears. I've tried to explain this to the customer and sent pictures of some damage. It looks like the parts cost that each reel most likely needs is over $100 bucks each and might even be more than the cost of new reels. The bails and arms of the spin reels are almost $100 just for those parts alone. My problem is I don't want to go a bit further with taking these things apart and doing any cleaning without knowing he will pay for it. he wants to know exactly what each reel needs and exactly what it will cost. You can't know that without cleaning them up, replacing the worst parts and then trying them out to see if they got better or they still need new gears also. If I do all that he will owe me the full service charge but might not want to pay anything if they are not fixed and probably won't be willing to pay for all the parts they do need.
So, whats your shop policy for dealing with this. Do you offer a discount for inspection but not able to fix? Do you charge full service fee? do you do it free but send it back as a bag of parts if they don't want to pay for what it needs?

[Swami805]

I don't fix reels but my company uses a ton of equipment. When we take say a chain saw in that's not working they charge an inspection fee and let you know the cost of repair. If you decide to fix it the cost is just part of the repair, if not you just pay the inspection fee. That's always seemed fair to me.

[Tightlines667]

I usually dealt with customers who handed their reels off to me face-to-face.  

Before meeting, I typocally find out what the customer wants done (i.e. standard cleaning/service, or upgrades, and if they want spoiling or splicing services).  I find out if there are any symtoms or trouble they have noticed.  I then let them know the service/spoolinf fee(s), and give them a general idea of the range of total costs (with parts) that these models typically run, and give them an idea when I can start work and when they might expect it to be done by.  I ask them to remove the reel from the rod, and make arrangements to meet.  After meeting, I give the reel(s) a quick once over, and share any thoughts.  Such as gears or drag seems rough, pinion bearing is shot (sometimes it's obvious when cranking under pressure), clicker is weak, freespool is poor, and note any obvious missing/damaged external parts.  Or, everything seems good.  Then I try to make sure  ask the customer how they typically use the reel (what type(s) of fishing), and when was it last serviced.  I tell them I will break it down, and give them a call with a rough estimate.  

I try to get the reel broken down when I tell them I will, and then I do a rough assesment of what parts will need replacing, and put together an estimated cost.  I call the customer and let them know how things look, and give them the estimate, which I always we on the high side.  If it is high, I may give them various options like using some used parts, if it is really high/repairs are cost prohibitive, I give them the option of selling it to me to use as a parts reel, or just reassemble and give it back minus a small fee to help cover some of my time.

All this might seem a bit overboard, and sometimes it is.  Sometimes they don't want details.  Like my charter boat customers just want me to get the reel, fix/service it, get it back, and get them a bill.  Keep it simple.  Most appreciate being informed and involved.  Bear in mind I focus on servicing 80 and 130 lever drags, and the repair costs can be relatively high.  No one wants to be hit with a $300 Bill when they were expecting $50.  Or have their reels out of Service for 3 weeks when they only budgeted a week to 10days. 

Repeat customers are different in that they trust your judgement and don't need to know what you are going to do, only what you did, or even just the total cost.

John