alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial US113n binding at high drag??
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
February 22, 2018, 12:58:45 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: US113n binding at high drag??  (Read 842 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
C Michael Bergen
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« on: January 11, 2018, 06:52:09 PM »

Hey guys!

Just got one of these bad boys (second hand) and am a little confused. I was under the impression that these reels didn't bind at high drag settings. I've got to twist the star pretty tight but it's definitely binding pretty bad when i do. Normal or something amiss on this reel?
Thanks for any insight!
Logged
Bryan Young
Ultimate Upgrades Drags
Administrator
Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 9605


The Reel Whisperer


« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2018, 07:23:59 PM »

Is it binding at the sideplate?  If so, you may need a spacer or new, uncompressed drag washers
Logged

Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
C Michael Bergen
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2018, 02:46:12 AM »

Not sure how to ascertain where it's binding. All i know is that it requires increased force to turn the handle at high drag settings.  Are you confirming that this should not be the case?



Logged
Alto Mare
Moderator
Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 10816


Southeastern Pennsylvania


« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2018, 03:36:37 AM »

also, check the rim on the spool on both sides on top, where it would make contact with the frame and not the side plates. See if you notice any rubbing marks there. You need to look really close, silver isn't as easy to spot.

Sal
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 03:49:43 AM by Alto Mare » Logged

Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.
Penn
Member
*
Online Online

Posts: 127


« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2018, 04:22:19 AM »

Not sure how to ascertain where it's binding. All i know is that it requires increased force to turn the handle at high drag settings.  Are you confirming that this should not be the case?





Michael,

Try adding a .010" thick shim on top of part # 9.  Did you check the amount of drag the reel had when you cranked the star fully tight?  These reels max out at 28lbs.

tony
Logged
C Michael Bergen
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2018, 05:17:39 AM »

The spool rim is not rubbing. No line on spool so can't check drag rating. Adding thickness to the spacing sleeve with a shim seems like addressing a symptom, not the actual problem.  There's only 100 or so parts in the durn thing so it can't be too difficult to figure out the issue. Guess it's time to take it apart. Going fishing this morning so it'll have to wait. Thanks for the suggestions guys.  I'll check back in after I've  pulled it apart.
Logged
Bryan Young
Ultimate Upgrades Drags
Administrator
Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 9605


The Reel Whisperer


« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2018, 05:23:53 AM »

Not sure how to ascertain where it's binding. All i know is that it requires increased force to turn the handle at high drag settings.  Are you confirming that this should not be the case?

Look to see if the star is contacting the side plate.

If you back-off the star slightly, does the binding go away?  If so, then likely you will need to shim under the star.  It's also likely that one of the two spring washers is facing the wrong direction.  The spring washers under the star could be configured "bearing" then  )( or )) then "star clicker", then star when they should be configured "bearing" then  () then "star clicker."

And as you have stated, the reel was purchased Second Hand, so there is also a possibility that the previous owner may have disassembled the reel and may have installed the reel incorrectly or may have missed installing a part.

Here is a tutorial of a very similar reel.  http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=14.0  In fact, I'm sure many would argue that this is the same reel.  I say it's not.  Just look at the color of the reel.   Wink

Therefore, I would first and only do the following steps:

Remove the handle arm cap
Remove the handle arm nut
Remove the Handle
Unscrew the star
Remove the star clicker device
This will take you to the spring washers

Would you please take a picture of the spring washers configuration.

Remove the spring washers and inspect them for cracks

Take a picture of the gear sleeve with the side plate and the gear sleeve bearing.

Then post the pictures by going to the + Additional Options and under Attach: Choose File.  Upload the picture.  Click on (more attachments) then Choose File and upload the picture.  You can upload up to 4 pictures per post.

This will give us an idea what is going on.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 06:03:47 AM by Bryan Young » Logged

Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
Penn
Member
*
Online Online

Posts: 127


« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2018, 05:41:23 AM »

The spool rim is not rubbing. No line on spool so can't check drag rating. Adding thickness to the spacing sleeve with a shim seems like addressing a symptom, not the actual problem.  There's only 100 or so parts in the durn thing so it can't be too difficult to figure out the issue. Guess it's time to take it apart. Going fishing this morning so it'll have to wait. Thanks for the suggestions guys.  I'll check back in after I've  pulled it apart.

What we have seen in the past, guys cranking down the drag to 40 + lbs. and even know the reel may be able to handle that we only recommend 27 lbs.  Testing the drag when the binding begins is a good start in troubleshooting your issue.  Adding a shim under the star may allow you to crank the star as tight as you want without the binding.  If you told me the binding began under 27 lbs. of drag shimming may not be the best option.  The star is most likely bottoming out on the side plate.

tony
Logged
C Michael Bergen
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2018, 06:52:36 AM »

I pulled the crank and everything off the right side down to the side plate before leaving the house. One of the spring washers was not as cupped as the other. I actually had to look at it closely to verify that it was actually cupped. They were both installed properly though. At the boat ramp now and my dog is itching to go catch these sheepshead. (We'll see if she's still into it when we hit these projected 5-6 ft seas Wink

I'll get back with y'all later. Thanks again!
Logged
handi2
Sensei
Member
***
Online Online

Posts: 2787


OCD Reel Service and Repair


« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2018, 09:32:38 AM »

I have added a shim washer on top to eliminate the drag star from bottoming out and rubbing.
Logged

OCD Reel Service & Repair
Gulf Breeze, FL
PacRat
Member
*
Online Online

Posts: 365



« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2018, 12:57:46 PM »

I agree with the others...it sounds like your drag star is contacting the sideplate. When you get home please confirm this. I know this sounds too obvious but Penn shows several drag washer configurations in the manual (versa-drag?). Maybe the previous owner was confused and omitted one or more drag washers. Make certain all four metal washers and all four friction washers are present. If everything is there and the star is contacting the sideplate you will likely need to replace the friction washers and/or the tension spring washers.
Use this schematic  while you're in there and confirm that parts 4, 6, 7L, 8, 9, 8A and 8B are all in there and in the correct sequence.
http://www.scottsbt.com/catalog/store/images/pennparts/schematics/113hn.pdf
Let us know what you find.
Mike
Logged
C Michael Bergen
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2018, 01:25:05 PM »

Anyone know how to put this back together? Just joking. I'll get it. I learned not to remove the eccentric lever or the springs will pivot the eccentric just enough that you can't get the lever back on. Had to break out some tiny needlenose to pull and refit the springs.

In other news, the star does not appear to be contacting the side plate (looks like there is space and I can't find any signs of rubbing between the two parts)

The spring washers are oriented correctly according to the schematic and the drag stack is correct as well.

Sigh- I prefer it when problems readily present their cause.

I'm going to put it back together and start over. Neat reel though


* IMG_20180112_160436649.jpg (4362.56 KB, 3024x4032 - viewed 31 times.)
Logged
STRIPER LOU
Sensei
Member
***
Online Online

Posts: 1560



« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2018, 01:35:50 PM »

Tony, Its pretty nice when a Penn Engineer can take the time to monitor and help people out here! Its appreciated.
Regard's,  ..  Lou
Logged
Bryan Young
Ultimate Upgrades Drags
Administrator
Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 9605


The Reel Whisperer


« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2018, 01:54:05 PM »

Yup, Tony is the best!!!

Michael, I cannot think of anything else without have the reel in hand. 

I don't envy you in getting those anti-reverse dogs back in.  It too me several tries for the dogs to stay in place!
Logged

Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
C Michael Bergen
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2018, 02:38:27 PM »

Man! That reel is a bear to get back together. The eccentric assembly and the bridge installation makes me wish I had more patience (and tiny fingers). Everything looks solid in there but I'm not so sure about the design of the dogs. Seem to have an awful lot of play. Bet they get tore up when catching big fish on heavy drag. There was no smoking gun as far as the binding issue. Guess I'll order some new spring washers as that one was less cupped than the other two.

In the meantime I'll spool it up and test the drag weight. Thanks again for all the help guys! I'll report back when I know more. 
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.125 seconds with 15 queries.