alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Metaloid 5, 2 speed bearing size
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October 23, 2018, 05:14:49 PM *
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Author Topic: Metaloid 5, 2 speed bearing size  (Read 2111 times)
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Arthur1
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« on: October 13, 2017, 05:00:46 PM »

Called Okuma today and asked if they knew the size of the pinion bearing in the metaloid 5, 2 speed. They did not but they did say that it is not the same size as the single speed version. So does anyone know the size by any chance? Looking to modify it with a thrust bearing.
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Tiddlerbasher
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2017, 04:45:45 AM »

The schematics for the single and 2 speed reels indicate the same part no 0910532.
Boon - on this site used a 6x17x6mm (for a single speed reel) angular contact bearing from VXB.com part no 706c.
Assuming Okuma's schematics are accurate that bearing should also fit the 2 speed.
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Arthur1
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2017, 07:21:33 AM »

I had a feeling that I should have asked for the schematics of both reels! And I was very specific over the phone and got a "No the pinion bearing is not the same in the 2 reels". Sigh. I read Boon's post and was very excited to read it. I was told that a thrust bearing would be better suited in this case than an AC bearing. Since they offer this reel in a left hand version, is light weight and has a high drag capacity for its size, I wanted to modify it and give it a go. The handle on my Andros binds when I need to crank down on the lever drag and honestly, I really wanted a left handed reel this size. Penn's fathom 15, 2 speed is not available as a left handed model.
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Tiddlerbasher
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2017, 07:35:32 AM »

The ac bearing works because it can take a radial and axial load.  A thrust bearing can only take an axial load - you will need an additional radial bearing to support the shaft and pinion. I believe you will find there is not enough space for 2 bearings. That is why a few of us have tried ac bearings i.e. a compromise.
I fish my Andros (original model) with 10lb drag at strike (20lb at full) and get no binding. The Metaloid has a bigger pinion bearing which should produce less binding. What drag are you running?
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Arthur1
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2017, 07:48:05 AM »

Ah, now I see! Thank you! I set the drag at 14lbs strike and ended fishing it with the lever drag pushed further. The guy next to me asked if I was ok bc the reel handle was not "cooperating" on one of the fish caught, embarrassing really. I'd buy the Penn Fathom 25N 2 speed in a left handed model but like I said, wanted a smaller reel and the metaloid fills that gap, just doesn't have the bearing stock. You guys are always on the look out and knowledge is priceless  Roll Eyes
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Tiddlerbasher
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2017, 04:00:43 PM »

If the handle 'is not co-operating' drop to the lower gear Undecided
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boon
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2017, 12:29:09 PM »

As per my other thread, as well as modifying the pinion bearing you need to either install a spool sleeve to transfer the axial load from the left spool bearing, or put an angular or stacked radial+thrust bearings (ala Solterra SLX) in the left side of the spool (right side if you have a lefty reel), or you will crush that little bearing with high drag and get bad freespool.
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Tiddlerbasher
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2017, 02:22:20 PM »

Good luck with that Boon - I've yet to find a lever drag reel with enough space for that mod.
A spool shaft sleeve can sometimes improve free spool - it won't stop or 'transfer' the axial load on bearings.
For a lever drag reel: With, or without, a spool sleeve an axial force is still applied to the left spool and pinion bearing.
Bigger bearings or angular contact bearings can help. If there is space for a thrust bearing brilliant. But realistically we are stuck with the basic design of the reel. Fish the thing within the designed drag range and you are golden.
Most people 'guess' their drag setting with an 'educated pull' on the line. I have yet to find someone (at least in the UK) who gets close to 50% of reality.
Most of the tests I've done indicate people over estimate how much drag they have set - by some margin. Ie I've set the drag to 10lb they guess it's 20lb Sad

Personally I don't guess anymore - I use a spring balance (it doesn't have to be calibrated by the National Physics Laboratory!).
I set the drag before fishing - and back it off after a rinse.

 
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handi2
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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2017, 02:33:46 PM »

I have guys in the shop hook their rod and reel to a mounted calibrated spring scale. They set the drag and pull as hard as they can without breaking the rod. Its usually 20lbs. Yep 20lbs.
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boon
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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2017, 03:09:39 PM »

Good luck with that Boon - I've yet to find a lever drag reel with enough space for that mod.
A spool shaft sleeve can sometimes improve free spool - it won't stop or 'transfer' the axial load on bearings.
For a lever drag reel: With, or without, a spool sleeve an axial force is still applied to the left spool and pinion bearing.
Bigger bearings or angular contact bearings can help. If there is space for a thrust bearing brilliant. But realistically we are stuck with the basic design of the reel. Fish the thing within the designed drag range and you are golden.
Most people 'guess' their drag setting with an 'educated pull' on the line. I have yet to find someone (at least in the UK) who gets close to 50% of reality.
Most of the tests I've done indicate people over estimate how much drag they have set - by some margin. Ie I've set the drag to 10lb they guess it's 20lb Sad

Personally I don't guess anymore - I use a spring balance (it doesn't have to be calibrated by the National Physics Laboratory!).
I set the drag before fishing - and back it off after a rinse.

 

Good point re. spool shaft, just did a mental arrangement of the internals and you're quite right - the left spool bearing will always take the load of pulling the spool with drag washer against the drag plate, in reels of this design.

I did wonder about milling a relief into the left side of the spool that would accomodate a thrust bearing under the spool bearing. I might talk to Okuma about getting a spare spool so I don't ruin the reel if it goes wrong.

Although much of this is moot with the 5N as it may as well just be fished at lower drags. The 12NII though is another matter Grin
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 03:10:10 PM by boon » Logged

Arthur1
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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2017, 08:07:37 PM »

Thank you everyone for your invaluable information and experience.  If I do purchase this reel in its left handed version, I'll give it a go with the mod. Boon, I know what you mean about the "hand pull" method. On the boat I work on, its all by feel, outrigger rods are different than the flat lines. My own level winds, the mighty spring scale as you mentioned!
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Robert Janssen
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« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2017, 11:18:38 PM »

...
A spool shaft sleeve can sometimes improve free spool - it won't stop or 'transfer' the axial load on bearings.
For a lever drag reel: With, or without, a spool sleeve an axial force is still applied to the left spool and pinion bearing...
 

Quote from: boon link=topic=23080.msg253858#msg253858

Good point re. spool shaft, just did a mental arrangement of the internals and you're quite right - the left spool bearing will always take the load of pulling the spool with drag washer against the drag plate, in reels of this design.


Thank you both for saying this. I have said this like a million times for about fifteen years, usually to completely deaf ears. I had almost given up. Finally I am not alone.

.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 02:38:11 AM by Robert Janssen » Logged
Tiddlerbasher
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« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2017, 07:01:15 AM »

You were never alone Robert Wink Grin
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strathy
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« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2017, 01:12:00 PM »

I have the 5 and 12 Metaloids in LHW. 
Run the 5 with 40lb Tasline hollow braid, and set strike drag at 10lbs.
12 has 60lb Tasline hollow and set at 15lbs at strike.
As of the 3rd of November the Okuma International site is now showing a Narrow 5 2speed in LHW too.
If I can get the EU importer to get them I,ll buy 2 of the narrows, as my mates RHW narrow is much nicer to jig with than the standard width 5.
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