Andros 12N No free Spool

[SoCalAngler]

All of the schematics of the Andros 12 I have seen don't show the belleville config, they show the washers but not there config.

One thing for sure if you did install the the shaft and spool without the washeres there is no surprise you didn't get freespool. There would be no way you could.

Sorry I couldn't help more, good luck.

[Rivverrat]

At the point i did that I was ready to try anything just to see if it would change anything at all.

[Bryan Young]

Did you change any of the bearings?

[MarkT]

Maybe it needs a shim or two by the Belleville's.

[Rivverrat]

Did you change any of the bearings?

Bryan, I have not. Along with spool, shaft & frame bearings are another ive not changed. I really hadnt seen the need.

But speak up if you think different. Ive new bearings on hand.

[Rivverrat]

Maybe it needs a shim or two by the Belleville's.

Mark, your not the first to suggest this. Please feel free to tell me if I'm not understanding correctly.

But a shim on the left side of the spool with bellevilles would force the other side of the spool with drag to the right. This seems to be what's causing the issue.

Being not enough room. Causing the drag to be prematurely engaged. At least that's how I'm seeing at the moment.

[Bryan Young]

Did you change any of the bearings?

Bryan, I have not. Along with spool, shaft & frame bearings are another ive not changed. I really hadnt seen the need.

But speak up if you think different. Ive new bearings on hand.

Hi Jeff,

I'm just thinking through each of the steps in my head.

Okay, spool assembly. Belleville's then bearing. Unsert into the spool. Add spacer and clicker racher then fasten by screws. Turn the spool over then add second spool bearing and spring then dual pressure plate assembly and fasten with wire ring.  If nothing has changed, then it cannot be the spool assembly.


The only thing I can think of is that the spool pressure plate is not mating up with the ar ratchet/pinion assembly

[Rivverrat]

Did you change any of the bearings?

Bryan, I have not. Along with spool, shaft & frame bearings are another ive not changed. I really hadnt seen the need.

But speak up if you think different. Ive new bearings on hand.

Hi Jeff,

I'm just thinking through each of the steps in my head.

Okay, spool assembly. Belleville's then bearing. Unsert into the spool. Add spacer and clicker racher then fasten by screws. Turn the spool over then add second spool bearing and spring then dual pressure plate assembly and fasten with wire ring.  If nothing has changed, then it cannot be the spool assembly.

OK this may be.
But it doesn't seem to make sense why this spool, frame, drag assembly has the same issue with 2 completely different drive side assemblies ?

[Rivverrat]

Bryan I'll look close at my reels to see how they mesh together between the drag & drive side. I've done this several times. I could have missed something.

[Tightlines667]

Maybe it needs a shim or two by the Belleville's.

Mark, your not the first to suggest this. Please feel free to tell me if I'm not understanding correctly.

But a shim on the left side of the spool with bellevilles would force the other side of the spool with drag to the right. This seems to be what's causing the issue.

Being not enough room. Causing the drag to be prematurely engaged. At least that's how I'm seeing at the moment.

You can shim:
1)On either side of the Bellevilles (outside is better, unless you have a thrust washer same diameter as inside bearing race, then inside)  this pulls the spool left and engages the drag against the spool quicker.
2)on the inside of the clips (left will move spool right, right will move spool left), this will tighten up the spool play (if there is any) and may improve freespool by maintaining constant side load in the inner races if the spool bearings.  Shim should be ultra thin, and same diameter as inner race.  Or removd both c-clips and make a spool sleeve outta brass tubing to acomplish the same.
3)Under either spool bearing (left will move spool right, right will move it left)
4)On either side of the drag spring (this will increase tension on drag spring and seperate drag plates).  

Note shimming anywhere 1, 3, &4 will decrease spacing along the spool shaft with regards to the drag components resulting in decreased preset adjustment at a given drag setting.

5)Under the pinion bearing (this decreases preset, moves the drag components closer to the spool as 1 unit).

An accurate caliper to measure each of your distances (Belleville stack height/remaining available space here, c-clip to c-clip remaining space here, each of the bearings inner race widths, drag components height, drag spring height compressed/uncompressed, and maybe change in exposed spool shaft height with compressed verses uncompressed drag components.  

When it comes to shimming less is more, and sometimes it's just easier to experiment a bit.  

Test freespool with various amounts of pull pressure/shaft movement with the spool assembled on the side plate only.

Also make sure it's nothing obvious like binding components due to marring or spool rubbing on the frame.

Don't mean to overcomplicate/think this one, just test and make minor changes before retesting until it works.

John

[Tightlines667]

Did you change any of the bearings?

Bryan, I have not. Along with spool, shaft & frame bearings are another ive not changed. I really hadnt seen the need.

But speak up if you think different. Ive new bearings on hand.

Hi Jeff,

I'm just thinking through each of the steps in my head.

Okay, spool assembly. Belleville's then bearing. Unsert into the spool. Add spacer and clicker racher then fasten by screws. Turn the spool over then add second spool bearing and spring then dual pressure plate assembly and fasten with wire ring.  If nothing has changed, then it cannot be the spool assembly.

OK this may be.
But it doesn't seem to make sense why this spool, frame, drag assembly has the same issue with 2 completely different drive side assemblies ?

That means the issue is in that spool/drag assembly somewhere.  Use a caliper to measure each of the components of each separate assembly, and find out where the nonfunctioning one differs.  Try to duplicate the functioning one.

John

[Rivverrat]

John, your not over complicating at all. I've already sleeved the spool in the past.Fella wanted easy access to bearings should he have to replace them while on a trip. Pushing on the spool bearings you can feel less than 0.001 of play.
I don't believe you can get much better free spool on the
Andros by sleeving them. But it sure makes servicing them much easier.

[Rivverrat]

I'll measure everything tomorrow. Report back what I find.

[Tiddlerbasher]

I agree sleeving the spool shaft makes servicing much easier - trying to push that cross pin into the shaft whilst compressing the bellevilles is a pita.

The fact that you don't get freespool with a completely different drive side assembly rules out the drive assembly.
Logically that leaves the frame and spool assembly.
Try swapping the frame and spool (one at a time). That should identify the culprit. If it does start measuring and comparing the good and bad - it only takes a few thou to screw it up!

One after thought springs to mind - I believe you changed the drag washer. Did you use an Okuma stock washer? If custom cut is the thickness right - should be 1mm iirc.

[Bryan Young]

Jeff,

I'm sorry, I cannot think of anything else that could be causing your trouble without having the reel in my hand.  My mind can only handle so much information...and this has be puzzled beyond belief.  If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.

Bryan