alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Andros 12N No free Spool
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
December 14, 2018, 02:37:53 AM *
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Author Topic: Andros 12N No free Spool  (Read 2534 times)
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Rivverrat
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« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2018, 10:00:37 AM »

All of the schematics of the Andros 12 I have seen don't show the belleville config, they show the washers but not there config.

One thing for sure if you did install the the shaft and spool without the washeres there is no surprise you didn't get freespool. There would be no way you could.

Sorry I couldn't help more, good luck.


All of the Andros bellevilles I've seen are oriented  ()().  I'm far from an expert on these lever drags. I'm getting better. I appreciate any attempt at helping... Jeff
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Rivverrat
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« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2018, 10:23:16 AM »

I agree sleeving the spool shaft makes servicing much easier - trying to push that cross pin into the shaft whilst compressing the bellevilles is a pita.

The fact that you don't get freespool with a completely different drive side assembly rules out the drive assembly.
Logically that leaves the frame and spool assembly.
Try swapping the frame and spool (one at a time). That should identify the culprit. If it does start measuring and comparing the good and bad - it only takes a few thou to screw it up!

One after thought springs to mind - I believe you changed the drag washer. Did you use an Okuma stock washer? If custom cut is the thickness right - should be 1mm iirc.

Chris, first I greatly appreciate your willingness to help.  I have agreed with everything you've said. Even If I've already done what you suggest it's not a problem at all. I'll go back again  just to be sure. My personal 12N is being used by a friend. So I am lacking the frame & spool for this reel. Drag washers used were all unused factory stock. Sure makes it easy to diagnose stuff when you have the same reel on hand.

Chris you've been an asset & just a great fella to have on this site... Jeff
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 11:09:47 AM by Rivverrat » Logged
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« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2018, 10:30:02 AM »

Jeff,

I'm sorry, I cannot think of anything else that could be causing your trouble without having the reel in my hand.  My mind can only handle so much information...and this has be puzzled beyond belief.  If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.

Bryan

Bryan, you've always been a great help. You've helped me a lot in the past when I was far more clueless than I am at the moment... Jeff
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Rivverrat
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« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2018, 11:39:39 AM »

here is whats happening. Drive side is not fully installed in frame. Free spool would be lost as shown.

There is a fine line with this Dual Force drag on the Andros between the needed compression of the metal plates to achieve good free spool & engaging the drag losing free spool... Jeff

 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u7ubzVpXn5ATSbUsF4aZBnuY2EUNI2xz/view?usp=sharing
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 11:44:32 AM by Rivverrat » Logged
bhale1
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« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2018, 11:55:07 AM »

Weird Huh?.....sure seems like there just ain't nuf room in there somehow.....I've never opened one, but am following with interest! I'm sure you'll figure it out!
Brett
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« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2018, 12:53:54 PM »

Jeff, Im checking this very close cuz Im interested on this reel once I finish some moving expenses for my daughter in the university (seems like never ending), anyway.

can I ask what happened to this reel when this problem started?
it was for figthing a big fish?
I understand this is not your reel, so what your friend told you he was doing when the problem appeared?

I remember you saying that your 12n made a weird noise that none of your andros12 have, so, seems like the 12n have a really small tolerance to mistakes and/or disalighments when working on the reel.

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Rivverrat
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« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2018, 01:55:27 PM »

IT'S FIXED !! IT'S WORKING !! .... YAHOO!!! 

Need to change out some things & get it boxed up & sent out. I know a fella that's going to be very happy to have his performing better than new, upgraded reel back.   

I'LL GET BACK... JEFF
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Tightlines666
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« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2018, 02:07:41 PM »

IT'S FIXED !! IT'S WORKING !! .... YAHOO!!! 

Need to change out some things & get it boxed up & sent out. I know a fella that's going to be very happy to have his performing better than new, upgraded reel back.   

I'LL GET BACK... JEFF

That's great news!

I knew you would get it sorted.  It is super handy to have a working version available to help with fixing the malfunctioning one.

John
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« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2018, 03:42:06 PM »

 OK I want to think every one who contributed helping here. I will be finishing up a tutorial on this reel soon on this reel. Running into issues like this does make feel less than able to do that.

 I measured all individual drag components & found them to all be very close for a mass produced ree. In fact I was pretty impressed. For reference the small fiber washer that mounts directly to spool measured .052 in thickness on the reel I'm dealing with.

The large fiber washer measured .049 & .048 among 4 different reels. The steel plates showed no difference worth mentioning the pinion guard measured within .087 - .089. Pretty darn good.

Then pinion guard is what was causing the issue & we need to be aware of this. But measured well within the specs of my other reels. Keep in mind this is a part that sees heavy stress. Ive 3 years of heavy use with high drag on one of my 12's. Never yet have I needed to replace this part. The fix is very simple & has to do with getting the pinion guard / adapter to mesh properly with the anti reverse gear.

In the first pic look at the line where the drive side meets the frame there is a gap. You cant twist the drive side lugs into the frame with any gap. the trick I found is wiggling the drive side a bit to get the drive side to settle into the frame properly.

You should feel absolutely no push back to the drive side from the drag assembly while doing this.   After your convinced you have it settled as good as possible, prior to twisting the lugs of the drive side into place hold the frame & drive side as shown in the pic & push the spool toward the drive side while wiggling the drive side.

This is only if your feeling pressure prior to getting fit up with a tight fit of the pinion guard & anti reverse gear. These really are fantastic reels for the money... Jeff
 


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« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 04:32:31 PM by Rivverrat » Logged
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« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2018, 04:51:32 PM »

Jeff, Im checking this very close cuz Im interested on this reel once I finish some moving expenses for my daughter in the university (seems like never ending), anyway.

can I ask what happened to this reel when this problem started?
it was for figthing a big fish?
I understand this is not your reel, so what your friend told you he was doing when the problem appeared?

I remember you saying that your 12n made a weird noise that none of your andros12 have, so, seems like the 12n have a really small tolerance to mistakes and/or disalighments when working on the reel.



He had removed the drive side to service after a trip. Reel worked great the whole trip. Loss of free spool after reassembly. I believe this issue has to do with knowing what to look for during reassembly.    

It seems by looking around a bit Andros 12 A series had it's issues. The handle spinning backwards while on the line winder being filled with braid was one that I'm aware of that postponed the on going release of the 12. Some of the early 12N's had various issues with free spool. I do wonder how many of these were the same as this one. I dont consider it an issue once one understands it.

I've run into some Andros 12's with tite gearing. This is something I don't like at all. Makes the reel feel like it's experiencing bearing load. As far as I know all these known issues have been taken care of
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 06:09:37 PM by Rivverrat » Logged
Bryan Young
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« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2018, 05:16:51 PM »

Glad you got it working. I canít wait for the write up. I donít know some of the terms so Iím puzzled. What else is new?
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Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
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« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2018, 06:13:39 PM »

On another note the reel is going back to Okuma. I took this reel apart several more times just to check it to be sure.  I had to fiddle with it repeatedly to get every thing lined up properly. This isn't acceptable to me based on my reels, nor do I think it would be for Okuma either... Jeff
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 06:38:53 PM by Rivverrat » Logged
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« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2018, 07:17:10 AM »

Glad you finally fixed it Smiley One thing I've found with the Andros single drag (haven't had a twin drag yet) when attaching the drive side move the drag lever slightly off of the free spool position - doesn't need to be too far. This makes it easier to push and twist the side plate. Maybe the same on the 12N Undecided
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« Reply #58 on: March 08, 2018, 11:19:12 AM »

Chris, I hadn't thought of doing that with the lever. Seems to me it might be an easier way to do things than what I described... Jeff
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« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2018, 10:52:55 AM »

I need to add here that I discovered recently the spool sleeve on this reel was added by the owner of the reel. It being of the same material I use when sleeving reels I assumed I had done it. The sleeve was in fact causing the issue.

The Andros A series with the Dual Force drag can present clearance issues when sleeving. With the belleville washers not being compressed the stack takes up more space on the spool shaft the spool is forced to the right into the drag assembly with the lever at free spool position. With spool no longer in a neutral position.

You can play around with the orientation of the washers but not without bringing up other issues especially when attempting to add a sleeve. Shimming can help alleviate this.

Any time you change the stock configuration of the spool shaft & belleville washers the spacing tolerances are changed very often causing issues with free spool... Jeff
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