Tiagra 50W LRS -- Spool clearance/Steep Preset issue

Started by coores14, March 15, 2018, 12:02:49 PM

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josa1

Another thought came to mind,,,,Is it possible that the little "tang" on the preset program dial is not seated properly in the preset adjustment screw.  If not that would push the spool to the left side of the reel frame. Just another thing to take a look at.

josa1

coores14

#16
so, just my luck and the customer called yesterday afternoon and was inquiring about the reel because the next few days are looking perfect for swordfishing and he has some charters booked.

As soon as I got home from work I dove in. Took it apart again, oriented the gear recesses the way y'all described, went through the bellevilles twice, removed the two little shims that I installed, flipped the cam 180 degrees, made sure everything was seated correctly, and put it all back together.

I'd say the issue improved, but isn't gone. In freespool and zero preset, I still get some internal contact as the spool spins, but at least it spins. Add some preset and everything seems to be right. I feel like I may have improved the drag "ramp" a bit, so that's good.

The main thing I noticed about this spool clearance issue is this -- it very much does it if the reel is tilted one way but not the other. Also, there's the tiniest bit of play in the entire handle/gear assembly once everything is put together and if I pull on the whole thing (away from the reel) all is good. If I push the on the whole assembly (to the left, towards the right side plate) the interference starts again.

Bottom line, I gave it to the customer and told him to fish it and give me some feedback. He may never experience the issue because nobody fishes with zero preset, especially for swordfish, so as long as he's got some dialed in he should be fine.

Overall quite frustrating and it'll keep me up at night trying to figure out where the problem is. Would well worn/flattened bellevilles cause anything like this?

Tightlines667

Yes, flattened Bellevilles could cause spool clearance issues.

I always keep a stock of new Bellevilles avail for to Tiagras, and Internationals 50-130size.  If you have a new set you can measure new vs. Old stack height.  This latest description sounds like something from your headplate assembly (2 speed assembly, or clicker retainer?) was contacting the spool.  Examining freshly displaced grease on the ratchet will tell you which.  The little shaft play on drive shaft is nirmal, but you could shim to remove it (either on under gear stack, or under handle), but when I shim here I always check gear mesh by examining fresh grease displacement when preset is set to appropriate range, and lever moves throughout ranhe in low and high speed. 

You can also note if spool rubbing changes when shifting gears.
  Really it's just a matter of getting the shimming, spacing, Belleville arrangment/stack height correct to achieve good freespool, correct range, proper gear mesh, clearance, and proper clicker function. 

If the reel comes back to you, order new shims, and Bellevilles and play around with spacing until it is functioning perfect. 

Some of this stuff is difficult for me to diagnose based on your descriptions, or photos, having the reel in hand or actual measurements of this reel's stack verses new would help greatly.

Don't get too discouraged, once you go through the final adjustment process in a lever drag reel, it gets alot easier to adjust. 

John
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

coores14

Quote from: Tightlines666 on March 16, 2018, 07:47:08 PM
Yes, flattened Bellevilles could cause spool clearance issues.

I always keep a stock of new Bellevilles avail for to Tiagras, and Internationals 50-130size.  If you have a new set you can measure new vs. Old stack height.  This latest description sounds like something from your headplate assembly (2 speed assembly, or clicker retainer?) was contacting the spool.  Examining freshly displaced grease on the ratchet will tell you which.  The little shaft play on drive shaft is nirmal, but you could shim to remove it (either on under gear stack, or under handle), but when I shim here I always check gear mesh by examining fresh grease displacement when preset is set to appropriate range, and lever moves throughout ranhe in low and high speed. 

You can also note if spool rubbing changes when shifting gears.
  Really it's just a matter of getting the shimming, spacing, Belleville arrangment/stack height correct to achieve good freespool, correct range, proper gear mesh, clearance, and proper clicker function. 

If the reel comes back to you, order new shims, and Bellevilles and play around with spacing until it is functioning perfect. 

Some of this stuff is difficult for me to diagnose based on your descriptions, or photos, having the reel in hand or actual measurements of this reel's stack verses new would help greatly.

Don't get too discouraged, once you go through the final adjustment process in a lever drag reel, it gets alot easier to adjust. 

John

thanks.
I did the grease thing early in my diagnosis and it was coming from the gear stack. It was being scraped off the click plate by the bolt head at the end of the stack.
No issues changing gears. The issue I had with shimming the entire gear assembly was that it needed to be shimmed away from the spool and adding a shim under the gear stack would only have pushed it closer to the spool. Same at the handle. The play would've disappeared, but it would've only made the clearance worse inside.

To me, the bellevilles didn't appear to have the gap that I expect when I put them opposing each other. These ones seemed too flat.

Sadly, this ain't my first rodeo on repairing reels. I do it "on the side" for friends/captains quite often. But every once in a while there's always that one reel that just wants to be a royal pain in the behind. This one was one of them. I can usually count on it being a Penn Conquer spinner or some Accurate lever drags, rarely a Tiagra.

again, thanks for all of the tips. I told him that I eventually want to change the bellevilles and he needs a new drag disc. So hopefully I'll get it back and be able to make it right.