USA vs Chinese Penn Jigmaster comparison video

Started by festus, April 07, 2018, 07:24:02 PM

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Reel 224

It's not a matter of who manufactures the product as long as the quality is there. I personalty support American quality products when ever I can because I'm an American. I don't think that is wrong or political at least I do not think that way.

Joe
"I don't know the key to success,but the key to failure is trying to please everyone."

akfish

The biggest problems with Chinese Penns, in my opinion, is that (1) the tolerances are not quite what the should be -- the gear sleeve doesn't fit the bridge as it should, etc. -- and (2) the quality of the stainless steel is so low that rust is almost inevitable. I also find that the feet on most Chinese Penns is thinner metal than the feel on US Penns. But I have to admit that the Chinese Penns are worth the money we pay for them. Good, inexpensive reels. The US Penns are absolutely top notch.

BTW: Penn stopped putting steel gears in US made Jigmasters long before they moved production overseas.
Taku Reel Repair
Juneau, Alaska
907.789.2448

Alto Mare

Quote from: Decker on April 09, 2018, 03:09:23 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on April 08, 2018, 12:34:26 AM
In some cases, the chromed parts are stronger that stainless steel. I have a couple of those in my 16/0's.

Sal


Sal, I thought you were a stainless guy through and through :)  Can you give an example of how chromed brass can be stronger than the same part in stainless?  


Gfish, I like the way you put a human face on the differences.   

Cheers,

/Joe
Joe, there are many grades of stainless steel, depending on the grade chosen when comparing it to brass , brass could be stronger at times.

This is from Adam, a man that works with steel daily.
Brass and bronze are fantastic.  In many cases, they are as strong as, if not stronger than the 300 series of stainless steels.  And they generally machine better, and conduct heat and electricity better.
Personally I'm no expert, but got this  same information a long time ago from Aaron ( Reel Speed).

Best,

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

Keta

Quote from: Decker on April 09, 2018, 03:44:29 PM
  I remember when I was a kid in the 60's, Japanese steel had a bad reputation. 

During the post war years the Japanese were doing a 100% rebuild of their country and that could explain some quality issues with steel BUT....I was fortunate enough to have my hands on a Zero that spent 40 years in the jungle on Guadalcanal and was amassed at the quality of the castings and craftsmanship overall.  When we took the gear boxes apart the internal "steel" parts looked like they were stored in a cool dry environment and not in a humid jungle. 
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

Keta

Quote from: Alto Mare on April 09, 2018, 09:27:53 PM

Joe, there are many grades of stainless steel, depending on the grade chosen when comparing it to brass , brass could be stronger at times.

Beryllium bronze is stronger than a lot of SS alloys in many ways.  I have a punch made out of beryllium bronze that will dent mild steel.   
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

Decker

Quote from: Keta on April 09, 2018, 11:10:02 PM
I was fortunate enough to have my hands on a Zero that spent 40 years in the jungle on Guadalcanal and was amassed at the quality of the castings and craftsmanship overall.  When we took the gear boxes apart the internal "steel" parts looked like they were stored in a cool dry environment and not in a humid jungle. 

Very cool, Lee.   Do you have any photos?

Gfish

Quote from: Keta on April 09, 2018, 11:10:02 PM
Quote from: Decker on April 09, 2018, 03:44:29 PM
  I remember when I was a kid in the 60's, Japanese steel had a bad reputation. 

During the post war years the Japanese were doing a 100% rebuild of their country and that could explain some quality issues with steel BUT....I was fortunate enough to have my hands on a Zero that spent 40 years in the jungle on Guadalcanal and was amassed at the quality of the castings and craftsmanship overall.  When we took the gear boxes apart the internal "steel" parts looked like they were stored in a cool dry environment and not in a humid jungle. 

According to my Dad, serving in the S. Pacific,  the zero's were downright scary given their speed and manuverability. 
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

Swami805

Would have loved to have seen that Zero. My father had some stories about encounters with them in the pacific in WW2. Early in the war they were state of the art, it took us a while to catch up. I've seen old fighters at air shows but never a zero. Fortunate indeed
Do what you can with that you have where you are

Keta

Quote from: Decker on April 10, 2018, 06:31:39 PM
Very cool, Lee.   Do you have any photos?

My daughter has many photos of the restore but she's in SE British Columbia.  I will try to get a few.  The plane was shot up and smashed from crashing but before the $ ran out they got it about 75% done.
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

Keta

Quote from: Swami805 on April 10, 2018, 10:35:53 PM
I've seen old fighters at air shows but never a zero. Fortunate indeed

I think there is 1 "Zero" around but it is not a restore as many parts were from other planes and they used the wrong rivets.  I think this one is in Colorado now and I hope the funds become available to finish it even though my daughter's family will not be the ones to do it.  My brother built "counterfeit" gear boxes in his aviation weld repair station/machine shop and made them look like the original castings.
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

Decker

Just to jump off on yet another tangent...  At the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia (birthplace of Penn reels), there is this airplane engine that has cutaway parts so that you can look inside it.  I don't have the background to fully appreciate the engineering marvels that go into this engine, but WOW!   It is always fascinating how advances in space a & aeronuatical engineering spill off into other industries.   That we all use GPS every day is an easy example.  Looking at this engine, I think it is safe to assume that there are connections between the technology that went into building it and the fishing reels that we use.  Am I wrong?


Bill B

#26
Just a little farther off topic.....the Planes of Fame Museum in Chino, Ca has the only fully authentic FLYING Zero in its collection.  I've seen it in person, on the ground and in the air and what an elegant flying machine....Bill

http://planesoffame.org/index.php?mact=staircraft,cntnt01,default,0&cntnt01what=stplanes&cntnt01alias=A6M5&cntnt01returnid=128
It may not be very productive,
but it's sure going to be interesting!

Swami805

Do what you can with that you have where you are

Brewcrafter

Thanks Bill, I was just about to type the same thing!  And not only do they have this exceptionally rare Zero, they also have one of very few flying P38 Lightnings surviving.
Decker also had a great point about technologies that rang home to me this morning while researching an old Mitchell that I ran across yesterday at a garage sale.  My Dad, like many servicemen, brought Mitchells and DAMs (and my Mom, Happy Mother's Day to all the Mom's out there!) back from Germany and I still have them (and my 94 year old Mom!) going strong.
While researching this garage sale find (Model 304, serial number from 1959.  The guy could see I was really into old reels so he just gave it to me - very nice of him!) I learned about the origins of Mitchell.
Most folks on this forum probably know this stuff, but it never hurts to remember - I noticed on the Mitchell website that the early origins of Mitchell were in Clock Manufacturing (precision instruments!).  The beginnings of Shimano were in precision bicycle parts (in the lobby area on the Shimano HQ in Irvine CA there is a sort of memorial plaque featuring a very old gearset - and commemorating the origins of the company).  And while Shimano was spun out from the bike industry you can also to a certain degree make the argument that those aircraft mentioned above - all can trace their part of their ancestry to a couple of brothers with a bike shop.  That Japanese Zero (state of the art at the time!) lives on today - in the form of Mitsubishi and Dodge motor cars (the Mitsubishi logo is actually a stylized 3 bladed aircraft propeller, and as far as the "rebranding" in the auto industry, pretty much most modern automobile are "mutts".)  All you folks with those REALLY nice state of the art Yamaha 4 stroke outboards (or motorcycles) might wonder why the company logo is...a stylized tuning fork (reminds me - I need to yell at my kids to practice their piano this morning!).  And that Zebco 66 that I think myself and probably 90% of folks my age had as a "first" fishing outfit - It was made by the ZEro hour Bomb Company - manufacturers of timers and fuses (basically precision clockworks) in the war years.  It's no accident that both the radio antenna on your boat and the rod in your hand might be labeled Shakespeare - I am sure there are many other examples like this with the fishing equipment that we all enjoy!

Gfish

Yeah, I remember that now, the Zero's were developed by Mitsubishi Co. Great TV's, middle a the road quality cars(relative to other Japanese cars). If I remember right, the first Zero we could look at in WW2 was shot down or crash landed in Alaska somewhere.
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!