alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial opinions, buy a PCH okuma rod or build Rainshadow blank RCJB84XH
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
August 20, 2018, 02:45:19 AM *
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Author Topic: opinions, buy a PCH okuma rod or build Rainshadow blank RCJB84XH  (Read 421 times)
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steelfish
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« on: May 15, 2018, 04:34:57 PM »

I have the funds to get me a nice rod to paired it with the mak15 Sea
right now Im using a Phenix Axis 801H 20-60 with the reel and I liked the pair so far but the rod is kind of "thick",  from the foregrip to the tip and I would like something with more bend on the tip and I really not fan of 8ft rods for Panga use, so a 7ft would be better for me.

so, I had my eye put on a PCH rod since some time ago, the flagship rod from Okuma, so, pretty sure it would be perfect marriage to my mak15 SEa, both rod & reel have gunsmoke aluminum tones.
but the rod building devil in my left ear is telling me to build me one from the scratch instead of going factory rod, that little demon is kind of winning the battle vs the one that tells me you are just two clicks away from a new tech rod.
soooo, Im insterested on the PCH 701HX versus Rainshadow RCJB84XH
PCH is 24 ton graphite with tip reinforced 3x (something like that)
rainshadow is composite (rx6 graphite / glass tip)

so, most of you know the kind of fishing I do, light trolling, deep jigging, bait fishing (not much livebait), and irons for YT, this rod mostly will be used for light trolling, heavy irons and ocasional live bait.

I know there are tons of better blank out there (like blackholes, UC, seeker, etc) but no much funds for get me one of those, limit for my build with accesories is the same cost of the factory PCH rod which is $200, if I can build it for less the better.


which option do you recommend, go for the new tech on the PCH rods or build one on the rainshadow blank?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 04:38:32 PM by steelfish » Logged

Swami805
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2018, 06:27:15 PM »

Don't know much about Rainshadow blanks but you build great rods Alex. A lot to be said for getting the grips and handle exactly where you want them. An Inch here or there can make a difference in the balance and your style of fishing. I think you should build one so it's exactly the way you want it. Never know how you'll like a factory rod, I'd vote for the rainshawdow. I have a few that I got cheap on sale but there light 10' almost trout rods. They have a good reputation, the 2 I have were a good value for the money.
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Jeri
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2018, 10:45:20 PM »

There is an undefinable pleasure is using something that you have built, which personally exceeds factory built products. Essentially, you will get exactly what you personally are looking for, in components and placement, over what some designer 'thinks' you need.

Not sure that a Rainshadow would be my first choice of blank, I would also be wary of blended blanks, where glass and carbon are mixed. They can work, but it really does take a specialist blank builder to get it right, that is unless you really do need more tip flexibility in your fishing styles. We build a lot of rods with mixed carbon strengths to get action and power in the right places, but the tendancy is away from glass, even for the scrim layers - mainly because of bulk and weight.

In our surf field, we are now seeing more blanks with truly 100% carbon content, and then some further advances with Kevlar fabrics added for serious strength. Results are super strong and powerful surf rods, but significantly lighter and slimmer than earlier designs.
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2018, 11:37:32 PM »

I had three rods made on Rainshadow blanks.  These were very long and light salmon/steelhead blanks.  Nothing like what you're looking at Alex.  Each one broke in turn and they are all gone now.  None broke with a fish on or pulling on the bottom or doing anything strenuous.  They just broke during normal casting or retrieving.  My guess is they had developed stress fractures from banging on the side of the canoe or something.  I started spending a few bucks more and replaced them with St. Croix salmon/steelhead blanks and haven't had another problem.  Maybe it's coincidence, but it's been a while now and no problems with the St. Croix.  Might not ever know for sure..
-steve
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 11:38:27 PM by oc1 » Logged
Tiddlerbasher
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2018, 01:22:08 AM »

I still have a pair of Tristar blank carp rods - 2 1/4lb test curve - These were the first carbon/aramid (probably kevlar or similar) rods I had ever seen. They are now about 30yrs old and were built by a chap called Paul Boote - Paul if you still around thank you Smiley I now use them for UK bass fishing. They are still doing a stirling job.
I find it interesting that Jeri is now going down this route - is there nothing new under the sun Grin
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Jeri
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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2018, 06:36:07 AM »

I didn't say that the use of Kevlar or even Boron was new, just that it has found favour again with strength properties that are way in excess of current carbon designs.

The early (1980's) us of Kevlar was quite basic, and very expensive at the time; brought about by the then slow development of carbon matrix. The carbon took a huge boost in developments, and Kevlar was pretty much left behind, as newer and stronger carbon pre-pregs became available. However, the higher strength carbons have an additional problem in that they are quite brittle, so the big strength gains have helped, but need backing with the likes of glass scrim, which just adds back the weight saved by the high strength carbons.

Enter kevlar, and more modern techniques of using it, as various variations of types that are available, like straight woven fabric, either full kevlar or mixed with carbon, or even micro thin woven tapes. Now the advantages of kevlar become enormous, given that the carbon as a base matrix ina  rod blank doesn't need heavy glass scrim to keep it durable.

The benefits of carbon and kevlar when used together now offer blank designers a whole new box of toys to play with. We are building full surf rods of kevlar and carbon mix that are 20% lighter for the same strength as a carbon/glass design of the same performance.

So, potentially the answer to the question on why kevlar, is 20% weight saving, or possibly 20% strength gain, depending on how you wish to use it.

Cheers from sunny Africa

Jeri
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gstours
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2018, 06:44:25 AM »

Alex,  if it were me I,d build your own rod.  I think you have the skills, and use your experience to judge what you want and get it.  Use good quality components and you will have something you can be proud of and the dinner table will be set.
  I have had very good luck with the Grafighter series of blanks from Calstar.  light and powerfull,  Seeker would be my second choice.  These are proven and available as mid priced blanks.   Getting the right action is always a little of a gamble,   Butt thats how you learn.
     The blank is like a wife,  a poor decision may not save you time nor money. Huh?   Go fishing. Wink
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steelfish
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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2018, 08:08:11 AM »


In our surf field, we are now seeing more blanks with truly 100% carbon content,

I actually know the current tendency of the new technology on rods, hence I mentioned UC, Black hole, phenix, etc. 100% carbon rods almost unbreakable (according to tests and online videos), of course I would chose a $200 blank of any of those brands with excellent opinions over a $80 blank with nice opinions )
but with a nice set of guides and rest of accesories the build can get expendy.

in the other hand, okuma in promoting the new tech on the PCH lineup of rods, some guys are even comparing those rods with black hole performance but half the price, so If I were to get a nice blank for $200 why dont just get a factory rod for same money with all top of the line ALPS components that easily can worth another $100 bucks.

Im not closed minded on getting a rainshadow but so far its the only brand (that I know) with blanks below $100 dls that have good acceptance on the rod building world and users, talking and comparing boat saltwater blanks in the 40-60lb and 40-80lb range

in the otherhand (man, how many hands do I have, this is the third  Grin Grin)
I have guys telling me that for the kind of boat fishing we do in Baja and the fish we catch just go for an all E-glass rod and call it a day  Grin Grin
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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2018, 08:45:31 AM »

Iím a huge fan of fiberglass/graphite composite rods, I still fish a few contender rods and I believe they were the first commercially available blended blanks here in so Cal. Been fishing seeker and calstar composite blanks since they started making them and have never had a problem with any of them. I like the softer feel of the glass tips but thatís my personal preference, Iím sure all the other materials mentioned work fine too, just donít think they are any more or less durable than any of the other materials. I beat my gear to death too, everything from small surf perch to cow tuna.
From what Steve said would make me a little Leary, the ones I have are similar to the ones mentioned. might be best to stick to the tried and true and spend a bit more. Most things cost more for a reason and the blank isnít where you want to skimp on cost.
Building your own is the way to go, I see your posts on that ďotherĒ board might post something on there, a lot of them use rainshadow blanks
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!
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steelfish
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« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2018, 09:32:05 AM »


Building your own is the way to go, I see your posts on that ďotherĒ board might post something on there, a lot of them use rainshadow blanks

you're right amigo, lots of followers on Rainshadow lineup of blanks on the BD forum specially on the rodbuiling subforum, it might be a SoCal "thing"  Grin, actually SoCal and Baja fishing style its not that different.
most swear by them as best bang for the buck blanks, I actually already posted something about this on there and as expected 100% say build it not buy it, friends dont let friends use factory rods  Tongue

in a double thinking and after checking that this will be my first right from the scratch build, I think Im better off using a blank not that expensive in case I made a mess with the grips or reel seats, etc Roll Eyes, once I mastered the installation of grips, reel seats, butts, etc (guide wraps is no longer a problem) I might sell my all factory rods and go for a higher class blanks to build up my rods arsenal.


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Jeri
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« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2018, 10:33:32 PM »


in a double thinking and after checking that this will be my first right from the scratch build, I think Im better off using a blank not that expensive in case I made a mess with the grips or reel seats, etc Roll Eyes, once I mastered the installation of grips, reel seats, butts, etc (guide wraps is no longer a problem) I might sell my all factory rods and go for a higher class blanks to build up my rods arsenal.


I was in a similar position about 30+ years ago, making the first transition from factory boat rods to building my own. It felt very risk at the time, with the same worries about making a mess of it. However, approaching the task slowly and with a lot of deliberation and dry fitting before the actual glue stage, I finished the rod.  Since then because I had built 'exactly' what I determined I needed for the fishing I intended, and got the blank right, I have never fished with a factory built rod since.

The point is that for your own very personal ideas about how you are going to fish, these parameters will never be replicated by some designer in a factory, so building your own is the only option.

Through some hard earned experience, I have found that potentially the blank is the most important component in any rod build, spending more money on the blank often gets you the best for your needs, and they certainly repay you in longevity - I still have that first rod that I built, it doesn't get out much, but it is still a viable fishing rod.

Like a lot of things these days, you get what you pay for. Where a factory knocking out 100's rods per hour, against a specialist blank builder turning out 10's per day. The attention to detail in the manufacture of the blank will have a huge difference, which is why there is a price difference.

Just my opinion.

Cheers from sunny Africa.

Jeri
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Cor
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« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2018, 04:25:57 AM »

I make all my own tackle and donít think Iíll ever change. Retired, so have time and have the ability.    Like Jeri says, nothing is more gratifying then catching a fish on a lure you made with a rod you built and so forth.

For the type of fishing I do nothing beats Graphite as it involves a lot of casting and I tend to use the same rods on boat or from shoreÖ.well sort of.    The only situation where I change that is when we go for Yellowfin Tuna, I still fish in the same way with stand up tackle and cast a lure over the fish, but then casting becomes secondary as you canít pull on a 130 lb Yellowfin with a strong 10 ft 6 fast action rod, the fish kills the angler.    Here I use something around 9 ft with  medium action which brings the leverage much lower down and these rods tend to be composites and still cast reasonably well.

Here where I live things are expensive, my experience is that Graphite rods break HMG more and on boats they break often because of high sticking.    Fibreglass rods donít break easily and can withstand abuse on boats far better.   So for many years I used fibreglass for that reason and my rods lasted, except for the guides that still got broken.   We fish on small boats around 20 ft which is hard on tackle.    I have changed back to graphite rods, itís a competitive thing as my buddy does not care about breaking a rod and he gets an extra 10 mt distance when casting, which makes a big difference.

I canít really comment on the quality and type of USA made blanks.

Just some thought from me.

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Cornelis
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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2018, 04:49:27 AM »

Don't be put off by the handle part, lining up the spline to the reel seat can be tricky at first but not hard at all. Rubber cement and the hypalon goes on like butter, use masking tape to build up the blank under the reel seat and use a good strong epoxy ( I like a paste epoxy like PC7, strong and doesn't run). I'm doing 4  handles this saturday, PM your email and I'll send you some pictures if you want. You got this Alex, the wrapping is the hard part!
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steelfish
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« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2018, 08:57:55 AM »

thanks for the support and push to go for it.



@Swami805, Im sendin you my email by pm to get the pics of the process, any tip and hit, etc will be appreciated.
I still need to do the buying list, already have 2 different guides set that I can install on it, so mostly I need the blank, x-grip hypalon grips, centra-lock reelseat, buttcap and maybe some cosmetic alloy trims.

one question now that I have some attention from seasoned rodbuilders, if the butt of the blank is 24mm, what size do I have to order the reel seat? 24 or 22 or I better first get the blank and determine the place and size needed? (same deal with the trim rings)


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Jeri
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« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2018, 09:39:23 AM »

Get the blank first, then measure where the reel seat is going. If you do need to pack out to get the sizing right under the reel seat, try the perforated dry wall tape as a spacer tape. The perforations allow the resin glue to get a firmer hold.

Once you have built a few rods, and have spare components about, like broken sections of rod, then carbon or glass tubes make excellent spacers under reels.

Hope that helps.

Jeri
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