Penn Senator 16/0 drag issue

Started by Rosgood14, May 28, 2018, 12:03:55 AM

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Rosgood14

I'm having an issue with a Penn Senator 16/0 and hoping you can point me towards what part is worn out. I just put in a new set of HT-100 drag washers thinking that was my issue as to why the drag was weak. I hooked up my 75# nephew and told him to run like a fish to test it out and after cranking the drag all the way down he was still able to pull drag. I added another metal washer like some schematics say some reels need and had the same issue. So I added one of the old asbestos washers between the the extra metal one and I was able to stop him from pulling drag barely and it was cranked all the way down. That still doesn't seem right to me and also with all that in there when I let the drag all the way off it is still a little more snug than I would like since I kayak my baits out. You guys on here seem pretty smart on your reels so I'm hoping someone will know what could be worn out so that I can order it because this is hindering my shark fishing. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Gfish

Welcome Rosgood14! Would it be possible to post a picture of your drag stack with all the washers spread out in the order that you have them?
Possible cause: All eared washers godda go down into the groves in the main gear and sit flat against the washers below them.
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

alantani

take a look at the slot that is cut in the side of the main gear.  note how it is only cut part way down.  with the old thick asbestos drag washers, it didn't matter, but with the newer thin carbon fiber drags, the "slotted" metal washer can bottom out against the base of that "slot" and behave like it was the bottom of the main gear.  this effectively takes the drag washers underneath all out of play.  check your main gear.  you may need a a new more modern gear that was designed for the ht-100 drag stack.  and remember, you always replace the main and pinion gears together as a set, never just one or the other. 
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

Shark Hunter

I don't think that cut is an issue with a 16/0.
Your stack has to be out of order or something is missing.
I do these more often than most.
This is what your stack should look like.
There is only one extra washer on top.
It is a Belleville.
Life is Good!

Rosgood14

Quote from: Shark Hunter on May 28, 2018, 03:06:11 AM
I don't think that cut is an issue with a 16/0.
Your stack has to be out of order or something is missing.
I do these more often than most.
This is what your stack should look like.
There is only one extra washer on top.
It is a Belleville.

This is how they were in from left to right. The only thing I pulled out of this pic is the extra (old) asbestos washer I put in at the top when I was trouble shooting.

Rosgood14

Quote from: alantani on May 28, 2018, 02:36:54 AM
take a look at the slot that is cut in the side of the main gear.  note how it is only cut part way down.  with the old thick asbestos drag washers, it didn't matter, but with the newer thin carbon fiber drags, the "slotted" metal washer can bottom out against the base of that "slot" and behave like it was the bottom of the main gear.  this effectively takes the drag washers underneath all out of play.  check your main gear.  you may need a a new more modern gear that was designed for the ht-100 drag stack.  and remember, you always replace the main and pinion gears together as a set, never just one or the other. 

This is my main gear and the slot looks deeper than the one you posted so I think it's not my problem. I also posted a pic of how all the drag washers were put in.

alantani

what do you have between the base of the gear sleeve and the gear itself?  your drag washers are in the proper order and the slots for the slotted metal washers are cut all the down to the bottom.  those are the first two most common causes.  you're not going metal to metal between the base of the gear sleeve and the main gear, are you?
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

alantani

also, can you get a scale and measure the drag?  not sure about where you are.  here they build 7 year olds pretty skinny.  most of these kids couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag.  they might build them pretty big in your neck of the woods so it might not be a very fair comparison.   ;D
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

Rosgood14

Quote from: alantani on May 29, 2018, 02:26:22 PM
what do you have between the base of the gear sleeve and the gear itself?  your drag washers are in the proper order and the slots for the slotted metal washers are cut all the down to the bottom.  those are the first two most common causes.  you're not going metal to metal between the base of the gear sleeve and the main gear, are you?

It does have a washer under the main gear. It's not a metal one and I'm not sure what it is made of but it's there. Also the kid wasn't seven he was 75 pounds. How abouts would you like me to test the drag. I believe I have a weight scale hat goes up to 50 or 80lbs

Rosgood14

Should there be grease on the bottom of the main gear where that washer is. I cleaned it all off for the pic but figured I would ask to make sure.

Shark Hunter

#10
I think you might be expecting too much from this old war horse.
About 30 lbs of drag is about right.
The drag washers also need to be greased with Cal's drag grease.
I would use penn blue on all other parts, including under the main gear.
Life is Good!

Rosgood14

That may be the case I just assumed I would be able to crank it down all the way stop whatever was pulling or break the line. How would I rig up my scale to test the drag.

Shark Hunter

#12
You can tie it to a solid object and do just a straight pull with only the reel in your hands.
That provided the most accurate reading. If You leave it on the rod, you are at your own risk. ;D


Life is Good!

Rosgood14

Quote from: Shark Hunter on May 29, 2018, 05:00:06 PM
I think you might be expecting too much from this old war horse.
About 30 lbs of drag is about right.
The drag washers also need to be greased with Cal's drag grease.
I would use penn blue on all other parts, including under the main gear.

Also what's the difference in the Cals drag grease vs the penn grease that says it's for drag washers as well. Just asking because that's what I put on it.

Shark Hunter

#14
I have noticed that Penn is putting this on their drag washers now.
I don't approve. Drag Grease is Teflon Based and won't break down under heat. That is what it was made for.
This route is better than nothing I guess.
This is just my opinion.
Life is Good!