older sustain 4000

Started by handyandy, August 14, 2018, 02:22:10 PM

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handyandy

Alright not too long ago I came by what seemed like a decent deal on a older loomis rod with a sustain 4000 on it. The reel seemed to be in decent shape given the age same with the rod. The price I paid the rod was about worth it to me, the reel was a bonus as I'm not a big fan of the trillion bearing newer spinning reels as they're a pain to work on compared to my other reels. I'm use to old DAM quicks, pennn z series and 400 series spinners. I like the old reels cause they're easy to service, tough, and reliable. Granted this shimano is darn smooth and easy reeling compared to many of my older single bearing wind it and grind it spinner like my 430ss, dam 221, dam supers and such. Anyways the reel was smooth and pretty clean. The only problem I had was the line roller didn't want to roll all that easily. I knew it was a roller with a bearing and bushing so it should have been nice and smooth. Like my sustain 4000fd that I have on another rod.

Well I took the screw out holding the bail arm on wouldn't you know it for some stupid reason someone at some point put super glue or something on the bail arm end. Well it was in the bushing holding the bushing to the ceramic line roller. I was doing my best to carefully pursuade the roller off so I could get the bearing out to attempt to clean and free it up. I soaked the roller assembly which was stuck together on the bail arm end in some paint thinner in hopes it might break down the glue some. It helped as it at least allow it to roll some, despite my best efforts to patiently and carefully remove the roller with some pliers with rubber hose over the jaws the roller cracked into a couple pieces on me.

Comparing the roller to the one on my sustain 4000fd the one off this original sustain 4000 the bearing, bushing, and roller seem to be different. I've only found this one schematic for this old 4000 and it doesn't break down the roller part numbers well. I'd like to locate another roller, and bushing for it as they are shot. The bearing after letting it soak in some carb cleaner and thoroughly rinsing it some parts solvent seems to be pretty free and smooth now. I'd hate to not to be able to use this reel just cause I stupidly broke the roller. I'm not super familiar with these in my eyes later shimanos so if someone else is and knows of roller/bushing that would work I would appreciate it. Link for the schematic I found. This is the schematic to the sustain 4000 I have it has the twin handle as well my sustain 4000fd seems to have a lot of differences.

https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-content/uploads/schematics/Shimano/Sustain/SHIMANO%20SUSTAIN%20SA4000F(93-26).pdf


philaroman

know, love, & HOARD Shimano's solid SiC line rollers & "down-UPgrade" every later Shimano I use w/ this better, older part...  (including, SustainFA/TwinPowerXT 1000-6000 size)

all of my large SiC rollers (large = room for BB, regardless of reel size) come from mid-90's Stradic/Symetre;

they're all one-size/identical & interchangeable w/ later metal Power Rollers, provided you have all the right "fiddly bits" (up to about '03, when Shimano redesigned their bail heads for SustainFD/StradicFH)

I'm sure I have all the necessary "fiddly bits", but would need reel-in-hand (or, at least, bail arm & bail head) to figure it out...  some close-up photos of your disassembled bail head would help

on the other hand, I've never played w/ Stellas or the original Sustain F which seems more like a pre-Stella, than subsequent Sustain models...  if you need parts specific to that platform -- I can't help

finally, super-glues are acetone-based -- if you had used nail polish remover instead of paint thinner...

handyandy

I will take pics of it and post. My bushings are pretty well garbage too, old and split. The glue was in there good, idk why I didn't try acetone as well. I had some almost always have some around for thinning or cleaning up various automotive finishes. I could make my bushings and bearing work, but new bushings, and obviously roller would be best. If you can help me out it with the parts I need I would be grateful. If you don't have them I guess I will just have to keep my eyes peeled. I could care less if it stays SIC roller or if I have metal one. The fact that it has roller with a bearing is way more than most my spinners. I'll take pics when I'm home this evening and post tomorrow I should have taken pics yesterday evening when I was sadly looking at my blunder. I had no idea that thing was a ceramic roller till it broke. Guess that's what I get for not posting the stuck roller issue on here first.

foakes

Roman is the expert when it comes to these, Andy —

If you couldn't get it together with the 6 piece roller assembly, as proper — I would personally have no problems with just switching over to a solid roller that you might cobble together from some other reel.

No big deal — it will all work.

Best,

Fred
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handyandy

pics of reel and broken parts

handyandy

more pics

handyandy

pics continued

handyandy

pictures

handyandy

pictures

handyandy

pictures

handyandy

measured the bearing with calipers its 4x8x3 this is the shimano bearing I have found that would work so idk maybe other reels that used it their bushings and roller might work on mine?

philaroman

#11
OK, I have a schematic headache from cross-ref. your SA-4000F w/ SA-4000FA, ST-4000FB & ST-3000FA (older, same size)
just to return the favor:  ;D ;D ;D

https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-content/uploads/schematics/Shimano/Sustain/SHIMANO%20SUSTAIN%20SA4000FA(97-03).pdf

https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-content/uploads/schematics/Shimano/Stradic/SHIMANO%20STRADIC%20ST4000FB(93-32).pdf

https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-content/uploads/schematics/Shimano/Stradic/SHIMANO%20STRADIC%20ST4000FB%20PARTS(93-33).pdf

https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-content/uploads/schematics/Shimano/Stradic/SHIMANO%20STRADIC%20ST3000FA(92-19).pdf



your bearing doesn't look so good (RD-3306? - I have some)  if WHEN it seizes up, it will NOT act as a bushing -- the tolerances are too tight...  on-the-cheap, I'm confident I can replace the 3 destroyed parts & questionable bearing w/ a compatible bushing assembly & choice of rollers...  if it works, pay what you think is fair -- if not, send it back

HOWEVER, YOU ARE STILL MISSING A PART!!!  not counting the screw, you have 5 & fuzzy schematic shows 6 unnamed/unnumbered parts between bail head & arm -- could be a thin plastic liner that you can make/skip, or a necessary stainless disk that isn't just flat & featureless...  I'd guess it's a spacer like RD-4637 in SA-4000FA, but can't be sure

if you're not determined to be frugal, consider sending it to me -- I can do/know much more w/ reel-in-hand & offer possible upgrades (swap the stupid double handle, put 2 BBs under roller)...  or, a trade -- 4000-size is overkill for "chasing smallmouth", anyway

aside from the roller mess, reel looks damn good after quarter-century (prob. F/W only), but it WAS owned by someone dumb enough to glue the innards -- complete tear-down is in order, before any major expense/trade

boon

The roller assemblies on a lot of Shimano reels are sold as a single item because they are press-fitted and cannot be disassembled nor serviced.

I went through this with a Stradic 5000FK fairly recently, had to buy the roller + bearing as a single item.

handyandy

Roman depending on what kind of cost we are talking about I'm not opposed to sending it to you, as your expertise on these reels far exceeds my knowledge on them. My other sustain 4000 a 4000fd I believe needs a good going through I've been meaning to get a new roller bearing for it, as it's in rough shape. This reel would get used for bassing primarily with larger heavier baits. It also would get used as reel for fishing tail waters around me for hybrid striper/white bass,  catfish, fresh water drum, and the occasional salt water trip. My dad will be moving to Florida soon, so may end up being a combo along with some others I'd leave down there. So he has some better stuff to fish, and for me to use when I visit him. The parts pictured are all that came out which seemed short to me based upon the schematic I managed to find. I appreciate the other schematics I'm not too familiar with these reels as most my others are much simpler old school Penns, DAM Quicks, and Zebco/Abu Cardinals. I'm not against the double handle so far looks kind of goofy I agree, but I haven't ever fished with a double handle spinner. Might give it a shot before just deciding to ditch it. Not sure on a double bearing roller setup, heck having a single bearing roller is an advanced high end setup compared to anything I normally fish. I really appreciate the help.

handi2

The FK series uses the one piece line roller. That's the only model doing this so far.
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