alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Daiwa Saltist 20H Upgrade
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September 20, 2018, 04:46:40 PM *
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Author Topic: Daiwa Saltist 20H Upgrade  (Read 183 times)
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jkim
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« on: September 12, 2018, 12:54:12 PM »

Hello gear nuts and tackle enthusiasts! 

I recently acquired a new 2018 Daiwa Saltist 20H.  Apparently, the new Saltists are based on the Saltiga Star Drag reels. which are well regarded but at a significantly higher price point than the Saltists.  One video from the ICAST show touted the Saltists as being all-metal on the insides, implying shared internals with the Saltigas and differing mainly in the frame/body material being a cheaper cast aluminum versus the more expensive machined aluminum body of the Saltiga.

I ran across a Youtube video from Tackle Advisors that clarified that the ICAST claim was not really true.  The video pointed out that the internal plate that is sandwiched between the handle sideplate and one-piece frame was plastic on the Saltist.  This started a chain reaction of internal questions for me including "does the Saltiga have a similar set plate and if so, what is it made of?" and "would a set plate designed for the Saltiga fit the Saltist?".

I found the answer to the first question by doing a Google search on "Saltiga maintenance".  Luckily, I found a nice pictorial on a blog from a Gasping Gurami that outlined a maintenance procedure on a Saltiga Star Drag 15HL.  Not the exact model but close enough. The photos and text indicated that the set plate for the Saltiga was indeed metal.  The shape of the set plate seemed to be VERY similar to the plastic set plate of my Saltist 20H, accounting for the mirroring of the part as the 15HL is a left-hander.

A quick check of the price of the Saltiga 20HA set plate at Mike's Reel Repair site ($18.98 USD) made the potential upgrade economically feasible.  So I set out to perform an upgrade of the Saltist that would, theoretically, push it closer to the level of the more expensive Saltiga cousin at a reasonable cost.

I ordered the set plate plus a few other parts off of the Saltiga 20HA part list from Daiwa direct, not knowing if they would actually fit on the Saltist.  Comparing the schematics of both reels, I determined that the single plastic set plate of the Saltist is comprised of three components on the Saltiga: the metal set plate (E70-0501), a plastic plate (E70-0801) and a screw (350-8912) to attach the two.  The o-ring shown on the packing list is not necessary... it is placed on the main shaft after the roller bearing sleeve is seated onto the outermost drag washer and I just thought an extra would be handy to have.




My proposed upgrade also included a few ball bearings to replace some bushings on the Saltist.



The first upgrade was replacing two bushings on the handle knob axle with generic ABEC-5 stainless steel bearings.  There's always a balance of diminishing returns when it comes to bearing upgrades on saltwater reels.  One hand, there is an increase in smoothness but it comes at the cost of potential or probable corrosion, depending on how well you maintain your equipment.  I'm pretty good about keeping my reels maintained so I opted to replace the bushings. 




There is also a bushing that is housed in the handle sideplate that supports either the pinion gear or the spool shaft.  I couldn't find that particular bearing size (5x10x4.5mm) on any retail site so I ordered the corresponding replacement bearing for the Saltiga 20HA from Ebay.  But the ordered bearing size was undersized (inner diameter and thickness).  Upon closer inspection of the Saltiga schematic, it appears that the bearing here is actually a bearing/plastic collar combo (G46-7101, E70-0301), which is a nice touch as it helps prevent the fusion between the bearing and the pinion/spool shaft.  I'll leave the bushing here for now.




The final bushing replacement is on the end of the main gear shaft.  The bushing included on the Saltist appears to be brass.  Makes a certain amount of sense to have a bushing in what is essentially a sump that can collect salt water.  I packed this area with grease before assembly but I'll have to keep an eye on it. 




Here is the plastic Saltist set plate in-situ compared to the metal plate from the Saltiga.  Looks identical in shape.



Here are the two set plates with all components removed.  The black one on the left is the plastic set plate from the Saltist.  The grey one on the right is the metal set plate from the Saltiga.  Make sure you transfer the small metal disc from the sump where the main gear shaft resides (in the circular depression at the bottom of the plate).




The set plate upgrade was almost put on the shelf when I discovered that the screws to attach the main gear shaft were different.  But luckily, I found some spare screws that just happened to fit into the holes of the metal plate... Yay!  If anyone performs this upgrade, make sure you order the two screws to attach the gear shaft to the set plate from the Saltiga parts list (E70-5001).




I make sure to lube the new set plate components liberally with grease.  After the Saltist components are transferred to the new set plate, I attempt to attach the new set plate to the reel.  The Saltiga set plate is a perfect fit on the Saltist!




Upgrade complete!  I now have a Saltist with (what I think is) a Saltiga interior and an upgraded bearing count of 7+1.  Does it make any practical difference in the performance of the reel?  Could be... could be not... but the upgrade was cheap enough and easy enough to make it worthwhile in my opinion.  Especially considering that the main gear shaft is attached to this set plate.

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Rothmar2
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2018, 01:14:32 PM »

Great upgrade, and thanks for sharing with the detailed information, after all the research and procurement you put into it. Hopefully this will help someone else in the future.
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Gfish
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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2018, 01:50:45 PM »

Cool! Thanks for takin us along. Plastic(wood) screws vs metal scerws, if I's able to even come up with your idea, that for sure woulda happened to me.
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Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!
nelz
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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2018, 04:09:27 PM »

According to Daiwa's website, the new Saltists supposedly have machined aluminum frames. Is that a misprint?

Also, pretty disappointing to see that big chunk of plastic in this reel, the previous version (BG) is all metal.  Nice job on the upgrade!
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Rivverrat
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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2018, 05:27:32 PM »

Nelz, a frame casting pulled from the mold & placed on a CNC to drill & tap threads is said to be a machined frame now days. Okuma does the same & says the same regarding some of their better reels. 
 In most cases it's not really worth worrying much about.

I believe Accurate & Avet both fully machine their reels. Same with the frames & side plates through out the Penn Torque line. Though not an issue the newer Accurate design shows evidence of the frame being  pressure swaged.

The quality & improvement of casting most metals has improved tremendously over the past 30 years. All the strength needed is easily provided. Personally I still would rather have fully machined reels. My pocket book doesnt always feel the same... Jeff   
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David Hall
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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2018, 11:45:49 PM »

Excellent upgrade, Iím very interested in how you like the new version.  Iíve got four of those 20h reels on a shelf.  Also Iím curious about the bearing upgrade on the drive shaft.  I recently purchased a bearing to replace the bushing on my Shimano tekotas (3) Of them.  I noted that the replacement bearing wasnít as thick as the bushing.  I replaced the bushing and installed the bearing with the same shims. After full reassembly I noticed Thereís a few thousandths of lateral play, like I need to add more shim on the drive shaft side.  Wonder if you found the same thing on the saltist?  I too wonder if the bearing for bushing replacement will turn out to really be an upgrade.  Plus I didnít grease that bearing and left like it is it will likely corrode much sooner.  All I ever did to the bushing was wipe it off.  I kept the bushing in case I decide to put it back to stock.
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jkim
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2018, 08:15:48 AM »

Thanks guys!  I thought it was a worthwhile experiment to see if the upgrade was possible.  I hope the information is useful.  I don't know my metals well enough to talk about the specifics of cast aluminum vs machined aluminum but my comment was based on the online videos I've seen where the Daiwa reps compared the new Saltists with the Saltigas and mentioned diecast vs machined.

I have not used the new reel.  I have not even loaded it up with line yet.  My next scheduled trip is a 2.5 day offshore charter in October so that's when the reel will get broken in.  I'm planning on putting on 40# braid with a short 30# mono topshot.  Size-wise, it's probably more of a 20-25# reel but 30# is where I have a hole in my lineup so that is where I'll be putting the Saltist 20H.

David Hall... as for your specific questions: the three bushings I replaced on the Saltist (two on the handle knob and the one at the base of the drive shaft) were the same size as the bearings and I didn't notice any play.  I am planning to go the whole hog and replace that bushing in the handle side plate as well but I have to order the plastic collar piece.  The bushing dimensions are 5x10x4.5 and the Saltiga bearing (G46-7101) is 6x10x3.  I assume the plastic collar will reduce the inner diameter to 5mm and increase the thickness to 4.5mm.  I'll post photos when that upgrade happens and update my post.  I also agree with you that a bushing to bearing upgrade is really not an upgrade if the the bearing eventually locks up and fails.
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steelfish
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2018, 09:49:43 AM »

I could be wrong cuz I dont recall for sure, so, I went to check my pictures from 2011 and it seems that the 1st gen saltist 20h reels have the "inner plate" also made by cast aluminium not by plastic like the one in your pics.

I really dont use the reel as much as before cuz is my favorite shore fishing reel for long casts with my 12.6ft rainshadow surf rod but since I meet few local captains to whom I service/repair their reels and rods I havent went shore fishing in years, I use my "Boss permits" to go boat fishing instead  Grin Grin, anyway, I love that reel, is one of those reels that I will never sell, others come on go but this one is here to stay.



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nelz
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2018, 03:19:47 PM »

Yeah, it looks like these new Saltists are a whole different animal from the previous 1st gen and BG versions.

The Daiwa website had me fooled, I thought they had upgraded the Saltist frame... nope still mold cast. They claim significantly more max drag on the new ones too. To be honest, the frames look less robust and the plastic innards make me question that claim. No matter, it's not like I'm buying any more reels for a while anyway...  Roll Eyes
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mo65
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2018, 03:38:03 PM »

   Thanks for sharing your upgrade info...great write up! Cool
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