Surfmaster question

Started by wfjord, September 29, 2018, 07:26:59 PM

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Alto Mare

Quote from: wfjord on October 02, 2018, 12:11:55 AM
Quote from: Alto Mare on October 01, 2018, 11:09:08 PM
Some earlier Surfmaster have different rings that at times won't work with the newer plates. On the newer plates, the  pins are positioned a little forward, making the thumb screw hard to engage.
If you have others, it is just a matter of swapping the plates until you get one that fits.
I have drilled mine a little so it would rotate a little more.
I have a pic here somewhere, but can't find it.

Sal

I'd like to have seen the photo. Not sure, but I think I know what you mean---you either widened the opening in the ring for the take-apart pin or extended the slot in the ring (or both)?

Actually the take-apart screw would only move about a quarter turn, but beyond that it wouldn't budge or pull out. From what I've read it's suppose to make 3 counter clockwise turns and pull out.

I'm hoping to get back over to that shop this week and try getting that side plate off to take a peek inside. I've never owned a Surfmaster, but it's been on my short list.



Extended the slot with the tip of the bit, it didn't take much.

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

wfjord

#16
Went back for another look at the Surfmaster last week.  It's a 150.  I squirted some ReelX down the take-apart screw shaft and it opened up immediately. Internals all looked very good, almost no grease on anything & no visible wear on gears. Nothing torqued or twisted (other than the stand).

There is a good bit of external corrosion on the stand & posts, and some on the rings to a lesser extent.  So I thought the reel might be a fun challenge and could imagine its possibilities... so after making an offer to the seller I took it home feeling moderately comfortable about it.

In closer observation the bent foot on the stand was bent downward on one side and I was able to tap it back into virtually perfect shape (but I'm not going to use it). Soaked the stand & bars in vinegar for about a half hour, but the corrosion was too far through the chrome and left too much brass showing.

*Miraculously I found a new stand (#30-66) and four shiny new posts from a local guy about 5 miles away at a very reasonable price.  No rings, though.

The metal rings are okay and have some corrosion, though not as bad as the stand & bars, but I can live with them.  Maybe someday I'll find some shinier replacements at a decent price.

Have some carbon fiber washers and ordered a delrin under-gear washer from Smoothdrag. This reel is quite light and should be a lot of fun to cast.

Spool was loaded with old green Dacron.





oc1

You did good.  Surfmasters are solid but that bent stand is scary.  It's hard to do that much damage without tweeking the alignment.  The replacement stand was a good find.

Pull a few yards of line off the spool and see if you can stretch it.  Dacron won't stretch but nylon will.  The line sure looks like sun-bleached Ashaway braided nylon in the photos.

-steve

Gfish

Nice! From onea the pictures it looked like the ring was tweaked a bit by the bent stand. Then again, the tail-plate looks to be in great shape. Probably sat around for quite awhile after the stand got bent.
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

wfjord

#19
Quote from: oc1 on October 14, 2018, 10:19:51 AM
You did good.  Surfmasters are solid but that bent stand is scary.  It's hard to do that much damage without tweeking the alignment.  The replacement stand was a good find.

Pull a few yards of line off the spool and see if you can stretch it.  Dacron won't stretch but nylon will.  The line sure looks like sun-bleached Ashaway braided nylon in the photos.

-steve

Steve, you're right, the line will stretch. I don't really know anything about braided nylon or how the diameter for a given test would compare to Dacron. Feels like it might be in the 25-30 lb range. Other than faded with some stains, it still seems to be in pretty good shape. Do you use any braided nylon?

Quote from: Gfish on October 14, 2018, 02:48:38 PM
Nice! From onea the pictures it looked like the ring was tweaked a bit by the bent stand. Then again, the tail-plate looks to be in great shape. Probably sat around for quite awhile after the stand got bent.

In regards to the stand, the bend is on the front right side of the foot (tongue?) and it's bent downward rather than upward. I'm not able to see any tweeking, dimples, or structural abnormalities to the rings on or off the reel other than a very slight outline in the chrome where the edges of the stand were screwed on. No spaces or gaps between the metal and side plates anywhere I can see. Likewise with the spool --the spool flanges fit close and evenly within the rings on both sides and free-spool is good and smooth.  I'll look again and measure the rings to make sure, but if something did get changed it's not affecting any function.

mo65

   Good buy...that reel sounds to be just about as good as I figured it was...enjoy! 8)
~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~


Alto Mare

Guts look good in that reel. I usually keep those brass washers and replace the drag washers with carbon fiber washers and the Delrin of course.

You have the good gears, the reel should last another couple of generations...enjoy it!

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

wfjord

Sal, I'm glad to hear that about the gears. I thought the pinion might be stainless and wasn't sure what kind of steel(?) the main was made of. I did smooth up the brass washers with 1500 grit sandpaper and learned about the delrin from you!

A correction about the issue with the stand ---it appears it was not actually "twisted" as I originally thought, but just bent downward on that right front side. Several properly directed whacks with a hard wooden mallet and punch on the underside corner of the right front edge leveled it back up perfectly without changing the position of the left front side.  If it had actually been twisted both sides would probably have been out of level. Will hang on to it as an emergency back up.  I don't know how it originally got bent, but I'm thinking maybe it got dropped or impacted somehow on that corner without damage to the rest of the reel. I don't think a fish did it.

BTW Mo, the baking soda and liquid dish detergent work great!

wfjord

#23
Took a break from the Surfmaster as I had other projects and work pulling me away, so I'm finally following up here  :)...

I got the 150 cleaned up and back together and overall it's a nice reel ---structurally sound, super free-spool, smooth cranking and, other than the click of the dog, absolutely silent.  The tolerances between the spool flanges and metal rings are so tight that I could load it with 20# spectra and be okay, but if I go with spectra I'd probably go with 30# and a mono topshot.   I think I'm gonna like it a lot.

The main functional improvement it needs is a wider drag adjustment range.  It's set up with three HT-100s in the stack and a delrin under washer.  As it stands the drag star will make slightly less than a half turn around. With the star wide open it has about 3 lbs of drag.

Using the old stock sleeve, it'll work okay as it is, but I'd rather it be much better. Tried flipping the drag spring, then replaced it with a delrin washer, no change. Not surprised, heck there's only a couple thread widths or less of space for adjustment.  Thought about shortening the spacer slightly to see if it helps, or just have the spacer sitting directly on top of the slotted brass washer. For the time being I was hoping to make the old sleeve work.









wfjord

**A previous poster mentioned a stainless steel sleeve with finer thread.  I'd like to know more about it, and also a stainless dog and a star with matching threads ---*which are best and *who makes them.

swill88

Quote from: wfjord on November 06, 2018, 10:21:14 PM
**A previous poster mentioned a stainless steel sleeve with finer thread.  I'd like to know more about it, and also a stainless dog and a star with matching threads ---*which are best and *who makes them.

this... https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Custom/98-155AT.aspx

or this... https://www.cortezconversions.com/product-page/penn-98-155-ss-main-gear-sleeve

steve

RowdyW

#26
It looks to me like the wavy washer on top of the stack is upside down. Also try removing the wavy washer from between the star & handle.          Rudy

Alto Mare

Quote from: wfjord on November 06, 2018, 10:20:20 PM
Took a break from the Surfmaster as I had other projects and work pulling me away, so I'm finally following up here  :)...

I got the 150 cleaned up and back together and overall it's a nice reel ---structurally sound, super free spool, smooth cranking and, other than the click of the dog, absolutely silent.  The tolerances between the spool flanges and metal rings are so tight that I could load it with 20# spectra and be okay, but if I go with spectra I'd probably go with 30# and a mono topshot.   I think I'm gonna like it a lot.

The main functional improvement it needs is a wider drag adjustment range.  It's set up with three HT-100s in the stack and a delrin under washer.  As it stands the drag star will make slightly less than a half turn around. With the star wide open, it has about 3 lbs of drag.

Using the old stock sleeve, it'll work okay as it is, but I'd rather it be much better. Tried flipping the drag spring, then replaced it with a delrin washer, no change. Not surprised, heck there's only a couple thread widths or less of space for adjustment.  Thought about shortening the spacer slightly to see if it helps, or just have the spacer sitting directly on top of the slotted brass washer. For the time being I was hoping to make the old sleeve work.










If you are looking for more drag adjustment range, you will need a shorter spacer sleeve, or you could shave your own.
As long as you have about 1/8" from where I'm showing on the pic, you should be ok.

you could sand the sleeve on a belt sander or a piece of sandpaper, if you don't have one, it doesn't take much.

if you didn't want to mess with it, you could get one here.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/9-60.aspx
if you scroll down, you will see the few options, it is good to have a few different sizes in hand.

You could also go with one of these, I use them on my surfmasters and yes it will fit, but it is tight...not a bad thing.
https://squareup.com/store/pro-challenger-llc/item/spacing-sleeve

It does work itself in after using it a few times.

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

wfjord

Quote from: swill88 on November 06, 2018, 11:15:38 PM
this... https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Custom/98-155AT.aspx

or this... https://www.cortezconversions.com/product-page/penn-98-155-ss-main-gear-sleeve

steve

Steve,
Thanks for those links. Good options and I'll be looking into them further.

Quote from: RowdyW on November 06, 2018, 11:34:24 PM
It looks to me like the wavy washer on top of the stack is upside down. Also try removing the wavy washer from between the star & handle.          Rudy

Rudy,
Yep, that washer is upside down. I had flipped it just to see if it might make a difference, which it definitely didn't.  There isn't a washer of any kind between the star & handle, but I see how it sorta looks that way.

wfjord

Quote from: Alto Mare on November 06, 2018, 11:36:52 PM

If you are looking for more drag adjustment range, you will need a shorter spacer sleeve, or you could shave your own.
As long as you have about 1/8" from where I'm showing on the pic, you should be ok.

you could sand the sleeve on a belt sander or a piece of sandpaper, if you don't have one, it doesn't take much.

if you didn't want to mess with it, you could get one here.
https://www.mysticparts.com/PennParts/Parts/9-60.aspx
if you scroll down, you will see the few options, it is good to have a few different sizes in hand.

You could also go with one of these, I use them on my surfmasters and yes it will fit, but it is tight...not a bad thing.
https://squareup.com/store/pro-challenger-llc/item/spacing-sleeve

It does work itself in after using it a few times.

Sal

Sal,
Thanks for the tips and links. I'll be looking into all those.  Having some assorted spacer sizes is a good idea, too.


I took out the HT-100s and replaced them with some thinner Carbontex washers I'd ordered from SmoothDrag for my Mag 10. I replaced the delrin washer with one, too (but may switch it back).  Overall a more noticeable improvement and allows the star to be adjusted more than an additional quarter turn, with the spring washer correctly set under the spacer. And the drag is smoother.  However it could still be better so my next move will be a slightly shorter spacer.

I need to study further on the upgraded stainless gear sleeves, dogs and stars.