Some help is needed in the fg- hard flouro

Started by gstours, January 20, 2019, 03:54:46 AM

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boon

How many wraps are you doing? You are ending up with a very very long knot. When I tie them in 20-30lb braid I would end up with a knot under 1/2" long, even in heavy braid (80-100lb) the knot might be 1" long plus some scraps for the finishing hitches and rizutto.

I can see the cris-cross of your wraps which makes me think they aren't sitting down nicely on top of each other. Maybe I should do a video about how I tie them...

Three se7ens

Couple of things.  First, your knot looks WAY too long.  With is so long, the first loops cant pull tight.  I try to get nearly all of the braid to change color.  For my usual 15 lb power pro super8 to 15 or 20 lb fluoro, 18 wraps, give or take is about right.  For the 10 lb powerpro super8, I need to step it up to 20-22 to keep it from slipping.  Also, your loops look far too loose.  You really need to be able to hold the braid tight, as well as the fluoro, and then start cinching it down after just one half hitch.  I alternate between pulling tight on the braid at both the tag end and the line end, and pulling between the leader and the braid.  You really need to work these knots to get them to tighten down properly. 

It gets far harder to get right with heavier lines, it took me a few tried to get a decent one with 80 lb braid and 80 lb mono. 

thats the method I use, stick the rod in a rod holder, and hold the tag end tight with my teeth.  Then you just feed the leader over and under in a figure 8 to make the crossing loops. 

Here are a few of mine:  purple braid is 80 lb braid to 80 lb mono.  Green braid is 15 lb power pro super 8 to 20 lb fluoro.  Blue braid is 10 lb powerpro super 8 to a 12 lb fluoro leader. 

xaf

#32
I agree with Three Se7ens that your knot is probably to long and not cinched tight enough.  I made a couple line pullers by putting shrink wrap over 1/2 inch PVC pipe.  I keep the knot as tight as I can when tying it and then cinch it down until all or nearly all the wraps change color. (It's hard to see in the picture but they have changed color) Once I started cinching them down properly I have never had one fail. I finish the knot off with a 5 turn Rizotto.  If I'm tying them at home I also put UV "Knot Sense" on the Rizotto just as a precaution.

Here's what my complete knot looks like:

oc1

I do two wraps (one on each side) and then scruntch the braid wraps together on the floro while pulling the braid with my teeth.  Two more wraps and pull, two more wraps and pull.  22 wraps total with 20# Power Pro to 20# Seagar Red.  Tie one hitch then pull hard to tighten until it changes color all the way down.  Then tie three more hitches all going the same direction and pulling the braid back and forth after each hitch.  Clip tag end 3/16 inch.  With only the tag sticking out between thumb and index finger, melt a glob on the end.  Since my fingers do not get too hot, the knot under my fingers is not too hot.  Then tie as many hitches as possible below the glob.  Then tie a few hitches above the glob as a bumper.  I'm exhausted.
-steve

gstours

Thanks again for more information,  shown below is another bench test.  Staying with what worked for me in the last post.  No changes. 

gstours

I agree that the knot is long,  but I can live with this.  It's got 33% more wraps than the single turn opposing wrap method.  I can shorten it by using fewer wraps and then retest it keeping everything else the same and report back tomorrow.🤦‍♀️    Just saying.    I,m an old dog 🐕.   
   I like the tension method as it looks so simple and easy.    So far I've got no confidence as I generally blame myself .     More later.   G-

boon

#36
I mean if they are working for you then more power to you, but when I zoom the image the wraps are still looking like this XXXXXXX
They should be much closer. Either you're not stacking them up/cinching them back towards the mono when you wrap it, or your knot is slipping a mile when you load it.

EDIT: In the screenshot below, the left-most maybe half of the knot is doing nothing. It is just sitting there being decorative. All of the strain is being taken up by the end of the knot closest to the braid, and it is taking the load over maybe 6 or 7 wraps, rather than distributing it over the whole knot.

I am sorry if this sounds overly critical, I am just trying to give direct feedback on how your knot is looking.

And like I said, if it's strong it's strong, and will land fish....


Three se7ens

All the extra loops are adding slack to the knot. Repeated use may show the top half loosening up as it pulls the slack from the looser loops below.

So being too long actually makes the knot weaker and subject to working loose. Use few enough wraps that all or nearly all dig into the leader.

gstours

 Ok,  thanks for the constrictive criticism, :D    It shouldn't be that hard.   Right ???    You all have been great to me..... I hope i,m taking the heet for the others out there that are frustrated or whatever with this knot.    Its the best looking knot for the connection.... It may have some limitations butt its a challenge ,   thats why i,m here.... If I can be critisised for anything its immaterial at this point....
   everyone posting ideas was welcome.   this is what makes uncle Alans site so good.... and far reaching.   Its all good.    m i bad?
      I have learned a lot.   More is posted soon.    Its easier now to understant the principles of the project knot.   Thanks very munch! ;)

gstours

Ok,  it seems like the shown knots of mine the right hand side cinch down butt the left and start part never tighten because the knot is too long?...  as an old fart it seemed like more is better.   Insurance.
    I,m listen ing and ready to learn.🤔

Three se7ens

Quote from: gstours on January 26, 2019, 01:13:58 AM
Ok,  it seems like the shown knots of mine the right hand side cinch down butt the left and start part never tighten because the knot is too long?...  as an old fart it seemed like more is better.   Insurance.
    I,m listen ing and ready to learn.🤔

This is certainly a case where more is not better.  If you have slack loops on the left side of that knot, that excess braid could work up through the knot to the currently tight part with use, loosening the entire knot. 

If part of the knot isnt actually working to make the connection stronger, it could make it weaker in the future.  Use the minimum needed to reduce potential failure points.

gstours

Ok I,ll buy that.   I've tied it some more.  Most of the time the knot seems as tight as you can make it.   Then it cinches down at first pulling with 2 halve hitches.  It does seem like when the knot fails the max testing there is slack in the start of the wraps.    Thanks 🙏.

gstours

Q?  Does it make any difference which side of the alternating wraps you 🛑 stop with before locking with?
     It seems like this is the area that moves when the lines are really strained 🤷‍♂️
I'm thinking it should not be this difficult .....  I'm trying to help others as well as people seem to be interested with the charactistcs of the knot.....
  also how many people really try to break the knot be testing ?   I suspect very few??   Just wondering.

Frank

Don't feel bad, Gary. I'm not finding the transition to the FG knot all that easy either. Getting ready to stick to my old standbys again.
Frank. Retired. Life long fishing and boating fanatic.

gstours