Pluton Question (Nessie??)

[flyforfish21]

Just worked on a Pluton for a friend. For the life of me cannot get this sound to go away. Its a click, click, click only when the reel handle is spun freely at higher rates of speed (just to test see how long it'll spin ). Broke it all the way back down to the frame, everything is in place and in place correctly. All clearance seems to be the same as when i broke it down the first time. I replaced the worm gear (#78 (H26-9101)) and also gear B (#85(H26-9201)) on the drive shaft. Stiil there. Stumbled upon a broken (chipped) bearing collar A (#40(H26-6601)) and replaced that. Sound still there. And now all of the sudden when put into freespool the pinion gear is rubbing and "catching" the spool pin and throwing it back into gear (no bueno!) I am stumped with this one. All 3 of the other plutons ive done have been fine, and this one WAS working properly before i worked on it. So what did i do???

Also, all bearings were flushed and are nice a smooth, no binding even when pressure it exerted (casted a few times).

Any help is appreciated, if i can't peg this by the end of the weekend, monday it will go to daiwa, as im only 10 miles from there cypress location.

Thanks

Geoff

[flyforfish21]

Also to add to this, has anyone found out why the curado 300 dsv and e's catch the pinion gear on a cast. I know its not the spool tension on this one as i have tried it through the range of adjustments, can't seem to figure this one out either. Tried interchanging parts with another 300 and still did it...

By the way, loving working on reels, and hating it at the same time!! the frustration can settle in quick, but the challenge is awesome! Thanks for an awesome site, have learned a ton already just from reading through old posts.

Geoff

[Nessie Hunter]

ON the Pluton, very hard to tell without hearing it???

When clean and lubed properly you should get a elctric mtr type buzz/humm on high speed spinning... Cool sound (like a DC reel).....


This is ringing a bell somewhere in the dark recesses of my old mind, just cant put a finger on it!!!

Is the click at same spot on turn, or at a ratio (like spool or pinion gear)??
Is it light "tick" or heavier like gear??

I would first check the spool to see if it is perfectly round, Its very light metal and gets out of round easily!!!!! And also nicks very easily...
look at inner Frame in that area for marks/nicks also...

The yoke, Clutch & clutch plates A & B check for excessive wear or  

This noise could be associated with the Pinion/spool problem. (Jumping into gear)

Tedious,  but check the gears for nicks, ridge by ridge, same on pinion....
(Main gear if its same spot, Pinion of its at a ratio).

Make sure all the screws are seated & in proper locations,  Non sticking out & rubbing etc...

The spool hitting/jumping Pinion could be a couple of things???   
Is the Pinion on/seated right (be surprised how easy it is to get it wrong on the Yoke)..   Is it raising up high enough to clear the spool???
Is the spool seated all the way down in left side plate???   
spool Bearing interior clear of debris??
Left Spool bearing seated all the way..

Spool tension im sure you checked for.

With the Jumping/disengaging  out of  gear, the spin noise on top of that.. 
Im gonna go out on a limb here and say it may be worn or bad Yoke, clutch assembly... 
your not getting the clearance when the Pinion is lifted or when its in down position...



On the Curado do you have a Power handle???   The unbalanced Power handles seem to be causing Reels to engage "during the cast" as they seek to level the heavy one sided handle (turns main gear & engages or partially engages).....



.

[flyforfish21]

Thank you Nessie!! Knew you would answer (or at least i hoped you would). I will check through all this stuff tomorrow morning and see what i can come up with.

The pinion is seated right in the yoke. So that's not the issue, i'm wondering if its worn down enough to cause the pinion to not stay "higher" up in the column for clearance of the spool.

The clicking sound i believe is coming from the driveshaft plastic gear (sorry, don't have my schematic handy on this computer.) hitting the shield that screws onto the frame. Only thing i can think of here is the spacer(s) aren't all there (those things are easy to lose!).

On the curado, no power handle, but i can see how that'd be an issue. Comparing mine to the one with problems, you can see that the pinion in the problematic 300 does not stay high enough to clear the spool pin when in freespool. It doesn't however do this every time. It will go fine for 7-8 times, then all the sudden pinion grabs again and it does it a few more times. Maybe the clutch plate assembly on this one too? I switched out the yoke, pinion, pinion support shafts (? LOL) basically everything but the very last piece (which of course may be the problem).

Anyways, thanks for all the help, i truly appreciate everything you guys do for this board!!! I will report back with what i find.

Thanks

Geoff

[flyforfish21]

Update...

couldn't get the pluton pegged, for whatever reason that reel was my nemesis, so we'll see what daiwa has to say.

curado 300
It will disengage normally for a handfull of casts (great freespool when it works), then all the sudden the pinion will slip out too far (pretty sure its what's happening) and engage the reel back into gear. I have already swapped the following parts to try and figure out the problem:

-Pinion gear (bnt 3702)
-Yoke (bnt 2801)
-Clutch cam retainer (Bnt 2165)
-Clutch cam (bnt 2406)
-Super free pinion bearing (bnt 2192)

Have also replaced the spool with one from another reel and the issue remains. Anyone have this issue and were able to resolve it?? Any help is appreciated, as i'm stumped with this one...maybe the frame??

PS-this reel has been doing this since the day he bought it, so its been sitting unused...

Thanks for all the help guys!

Geoff

[redsetta]

G'day Geoff,
RE: the Curado 300 - Are you sure the clutch pawl (ie BNT 3703) is engaging and disengaging correctly?
I've come across pawl issues a number of times on various LPs...
Good luck, Justin

[flyforfish21]

Yeah im sure there. You can actually hear the pinion rub against the spool pin then WHAM! re-engages. It is only happening in free spool IE during the cast. Can't quite peg this one either. These two reels has been the most challenging yet, and i've dealt with some pretty heavy corrosion...lol

Appreciate the help!

Geoff

[inhotpursuit]

I had an intermitant problem with one of my 301E's but only when i back the spool tension knob off for freespool distance casting, the other one is fine,on closer examination of the tension knobs i noticed one was missing the carbon shim,after replacing the lost piece with a piece cut from a carbontex washer,it seems to have solved the problem of premature pinion engagement

[flyforfish21]

I had an intermitant problem with one of my 301E's but only when i back the spool tension knob off for freespool distance casting, the other one is fine,on closer examination of the tension knobs i noticed one was missing the carbon shim,after replacing the lost piece with a piece cut from a carbontex washer,it seems to have solved the problem of premature pinion engagement

I also had one with intermittent problem related to the spool tension, however on this particular one, it "bumps" the pinion in the whole range of adjustments  of the tension knob. I did just take it out and look and all spacers/washers are in place. Thank you for the added advice!

Geoff

[Nessie Hunter]

Man, Geoff..    Got me stumped buddy...   

I have had reels that I have taken apart 10+ times.
Just because there was some small issue that "I" was not satisfied with.
So I know how Frustrating & Exasperating it can be!!!! 







.

[flyforfish21]

Definitely know what you mean!! But that's part of the challenge, keeps my brain working on problem solving (other than tedious college course work...). I appreciate all the help regardless. You guys are a great bunch! Glad to be part of this site

Geoff

[redsetta]

One last thought, Geoff - is there any chance the spool shaft is slightly off true (particularly in the upper portion)?
I've seen a spool shaft that had been very slightly bent by someone tightening up the frame with the spool tension cap buttoned right down.
The spool was locked and the cap frozen until the frame was loosened.
It took some time to find a slight bend in the spool shaft and even more to coax it back to true...
Cheers, Justin

[flyforfish21]

Redsetta,

i thoroughly checked out the spool and it's not the problem. Also tried spools from 3 other curado 300 DSV's to see if that's what was happening, unfortunately its not the spool (maybe fortunately...lol).

My best guess, is that the frame is somehow not the right dimension. Reason being, you can see the pinion gear (without the spool in place) actually hang "down" to far into the freespool area i'll call it. Looked closely at two other 300 dsvs and they do not do this. Only things left to consider are, the super free pinion bearing isn't the right dimensions, even though i ordered new from shimano, or the frame may not be drilled/machined to the correct dimensions. Either way, this one is driving me crazy!!!

Thank you to all who have tried to help so far. Truly Appreciate it.

Nessie, Pluton UPDATE. Got it back from Daiwa today, they replaced the Yoke, and the clicking was coming from one of the bearings. In freespool under no load, the bearing was quiet, however when pressure was applied from reeling in line, the bearing was making a subtle click (but noticeable enough to ME to not like it, even though it's not my reel!).

Thank you guys so much for the help and insight!!! Very much appreciated!

I'll update this post if i can get the curado problem pegged.

Geoff

[inhotpursuit]

The bearing size is 8x12x3.5mm maybe you can try .5mm up or down and see if that helps

[Nessie Hunter]

Thanks for the Pluton update, who would of figured???

Mic that Curado Pinion Bearing, wouldnt be the first time Shimano screwed up!!