Penn 113h Reel/Tank

[johndtuttle]

what we should be doing is changing the "star" at the base of the gear sleeve and maybe even make it a little larger so that the pressure against the dog is less. 

yea, I noticed that the Baja Special has a "finer" tooth to reduce back play.

[Alto Mare]

Ah yes, the Penn YTS 4/0 vs. Baja at Bloody Deck...
I don't have a lot of activity on their site but I felt the need to stir things up a bit. You know, got my back up a bit when one of my favorite reels was getting bashed. I was careful not to get too confrontational as Steve Carson is a wonderful person. Besides, it would be like me trying to prove that Alan is wrong about something here...of course, we all know what a tall feat that would be...not that I would ever try!
I do believe that the reel, as you see it now, could handle 25 lb. with the potential to push it a little farther. I know that Alan could bring us an upgraded sleeve and SS gears, but he just might not want us to kick the Baja's butt all the way!
Thanks, Leo! I am glad that you are enjoying it!
Sal

[LTM]

Sal, dont get shy now!  Lets have a shoot-out between the two reels.  BTW, I think it was Justin/Redsetta who came up with a finer-toothed star for a Penn spinner. Maybe he can do the same for the TANK, it should cost similar WHY NOT? If Jarvance is going to incorporate double dogs maybe he has a fine-toothed star that may work in the Penn 113H?

By the time we finish this TANK project we'll need to make sure these go to someone who will appreciate whats inside these reels when we die.

Leo

[Makule]

I know that Alan could bring us an upgraded sleeve and SS gears, but he just might not want us to kick the Baja's butt all the way!

Why not?  That is the way progress is achieved in industry.  Someone produces a good product, hobbyists fiddle around with it and make it better, then the manufacturer adopts it into their production line (or an aftermarket company does it).  This is exactly how the 4/0 is evolving with The Tank.  It is a work in progress and is a very good example of fine thinking and experimentation to make a product better.

[Dominick]

I know that Alan could bring us an upgraded sleeve and SS gears, but he just might not want us to kick the Baja's butt all the way!

Why not?  That is the way progress is achieved in industry.  Someone produces a good product, hobbyists fiddle around with it and make it better, then the manufacturer adopts it into their production line (or an aftermarket company does it).  This is exactly how the 4/0 is evolving with The Tank.  It is a work in progress and is a very good example of fine thinking and experimentation to make a product better.

Good point, Makule.  Dominick

[LTM]

I have a normally aspirated (stock 3.25:1 ratio) tanked standard (not narrow) 113H. I plan to fish it with 60# (@ 15# drag) top shot, would this be too much for the stock drive train (gears, yoke, drag sleeve). I plan to use this for local trolling and 60# bottom fishing.

Leo

[Alto Mare]

Hello Leo, i believe that you should be ok.
Sal

[Keta]

I have a normally aspirated (stock 3.25:1 ratio) tanked standard (not narrow) 113H. I plan to fish it with 60# (@ 15# drag) top shot, would this be too much for the stock drive train (gears, yoke, drag sleeve). I plan to use this for local trolling and 60# bottom fishing.

Leo

I've used 100% stock 113H reels with 50lb and 15lbs of drag in the past but the brass gear sleeves get dammaged.

[LTM]

Lee,

I was thinking of adding a ss gear sleeve. I want to retain the stock gear ratio for the application used (local trolling/bottom fishing). Do you recommend anything other than the ss gear sleeve for reliability w/60#?

Thanx Lee/Justin,

Leo

[Keta]

Not if you stay at 15lb and lower but the other parts and mods are nice to have. I like the stock gear ratio for halibut but the 4:1 gears I was given seem to work real well in my Tank.

When I get back from deer hunting my 114H will be "fixed".

[alantani]

15 pounds is kind of the practical limit for the brass parts. 

[johndtuttle]

Well, this is the start of (hopefully) my contribution to this find thread that has inspired so many.

As cranking power is a key component of being able to fish heavier drag this thread inspired me to look into what really made the Baja Special tick as compared to these mods done by Alto Mare and others. What I noticed was that the Baja Special uses a bearing to support the handle right where it exits the reel body (Baja Special part #55B) but of course they made the opening larger to handle a standard bearing type. Alignment is really key to cranking power as any flex in the system will cause gear binding and possible damage and Penn knew this when they added more support to the handle with a bearing.

Well, my reel had a lot of room around the body opening and handle wiggle (older brass parts to be sure) but I became interested to see if there was any kind of a "plug in solution" that might emulate the Baja's performance and fit the 11/16" opening in a standard 113H. Well it appears that Boca Bearing may have an option:



This is a needle bearing that has ID of 0.500 (1/2") and OD of 0.6875 (11/16") and a height of 0.3125 (http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-inventory/Needle-Bearings/1036/0-5x0-6875x0-3125-SCE85).

When you install it into the reel it looks like this:



You can see it snugs up nicely filling the 11/16 opening and giving the drag a little more protection and supporting the handle well. It should be noted that a Needle bearing is different than a standard one and the exterior sleeve should transfer force to the drag when you crank down with no worries as it puts no stress on the cage inside. The Baja special uses a small sleeve that supports the inner ring to avoid this.



All put together above. I'll be getting a SS Gear Sleeve from Alan soon and plug that in to be sure it works. This post is really to generate discussion and maybe someone that knows more than me (not hard when it comes to reels and bearings) might have some insight as to whether this is a good idea or not. It sure tightened up my handle though .

No real tests yet, still in the prototype stage . Feel free to share your thoughts.

best

[Ron Jones]

Same spot that most AR bearings are located. Actually should help a lot with the gear flexing into the bridge at high drag, I like it!

Ron

[Alto Mare]

John, thanks for chipping in. I like your idea of the bearing. Does the handle turn smoother than before? Also, how much is that bearing? Thanks, Sal

[johndtuttle]

John, thanks for chipping in. I like your idea of the bearing. Does the handle turn smoother than before? Also, how much is that bearing? Thanks, Sal

It's not a question of "smoother" (which is normally interpreted to mean handle turning pressure with no load) but a far more supported and solid feeling. Without it (and brass parts especially) you can easily flex it with virtually no load. This would certainly be transferred to the gears causing binding that will increase with the amount of load all the parts are under ie cranking under heavier drag.

The proof of the pudding would be how the reel really performs under load with an objective experiment (um, as a scientist I can envision a real test, don't know if I am that motivated ). But it should without question make it superior to no support at all like my reel was before this mod.

The bearing was ~$10 plus S/H from Boca came to $12.10 I think.

best

ps: w/o question this bearing is out there "flapping in the breeze" exposed to salt and water as compared to other bearings so some vigilance is going to be necessary to keep it alive. I used Cal's on it as it sits right over the drag stack and didn't want to contaminate it with corrosion-x. Though, now that I think about it, Corrosion-X HD might be ideal for it. It's not a bearing to improve any kind of "free spinning" like a spool bearing so just protecting lube should be ideal.