Question on Drag Grease/carbon fiber washers

[StanPearce]

Could you perhaps answer a question for a landbased shark fishing forum?
(sharksonthesand.com)

All websites (most noteably Alan Tani)say "Grease carbon fiber drag stacks with
100% teflon grease, never petroleum hydrocarbon greases."

But no where can we find anyone ever saying "why"

Is it damaging to the carbon fibers ? Or whatever is used to bind them?

Or is it just less than optimal?

Everyone agrees Cal's is a a top notch product and a value, and we can find info
on various temp ranges of greases, problems of emulsification, seep, drag drop
out,caking and drying and all sorts of issues, ect ect ect...

But no one ever says "why" a high temp petroleum grease is not acceptable.

If you could offer us a brief anwer to the question, our group would be
appreciative.  I would be glad to post it there giving proper credit on helping us unerstand the "Whats, whys  and hows " of the tools of our trade.

[alantani]

no problem, stan.  a petroleum based grease (i think it was an old penn product) was actually the first grease i ever tried on a drag washer.  i also tried a lithium based product.   the results from both were HORRIFIC!!!!!!  the drag washers stuck like crazy.  teflon grease was the only thing that worked.  remember, i want to be able to adjust the drag on a reel so that a 5 pound drag setting will allow a 5 pound weight to drop one foot every 5 seconds.  only a tefon grease and a carbon fiber drag washer could perform to this level. 

[Clem]

Hi Stan,

This interested me also, unfortunately there is not a lot of information regarding the subject..there is certainly a lot of personal opinion but nothing documented by the way of testing that I could find. I can understand the general reluctance to using petroleum based products, I am in the fuel business and seen first hand the effect of Jet A1 or JP8 on pump seals that were not compatible with the fuel.

In relation to your question the carbon washers are likely to be bound with a lite resin, similar to the layup of carbon fiber...obviously a lot less resin. I have a few large sheets of the product and it will slowly come apart or fray, if you continuously rub the "edge" of the sheet. Very strong when used as a flat washer and unlikely to breakdown.....unless you dissolve the resin holding it together.

Without testing it, I would say that the amount of petroleum based product in grease would not be enough to breakdown the resin in the sheet?...I'll take some samples of the carbon sheet and do a few tests and see what happens..but as Alan has said, gumming etc may be an issue

I have tried a few products, Cal's etc and now use Merc 2-4-C...cost effective and teflon based, but there are others (teflon based) out there that may be worth a try..like DuPont etc

I have seen a few posts discussing the effects of heat when the drag is engaged, again nothing comprehensive but I wouldn't be too concerned about the temperature rating of the grease..most grease will be good to 200 c or so, I think something else would have stopped before you got to that point..

Anyway my 5 cents on the subject..

[Caranx]

I took a big screamer of a hit on my 4/0 broadbill with ht-100's greased with shimano Teflon drag grease.
I use 80# test mono. Fought it for 50 minutes and brought up a 7 foot grey reef shark. ( not my intended game) It almost spooled me on the initial run.
When I inspected the drags, they were not gummed up but glazed with a slick finish.
After that, a local tackle shop owner mentioned that he only sells carbontex drags. He said greased ht100's gets messed up after a hard run.
I didn't ask him to elaborate on what kind of grease damages the ht's.

[Bryan Young]

Jim will be able to respond regarding the comparison between Shimano Drag Grease and Cal's Universal Reel and Drag Grease.  But, in my own experience, Shimano Drag Grease goes on like an thick oil versus Cal's is thicker. If glazing occurs, that means that the grease is no longer present.

[Nessie Hunter]

After experiencing the degraded Carbon washers in several Trynos Reels that felt oily??
I can only ASSUME that the wrong product could degrade Carbon fiber in a very negative way.

Shimano admitted to a Bad run on them in certain models, but I found it in Many Models that were not on their list.....

[Caranx]

"Jim will be able to respond regarding the comparison between Shimano Drag Grease and Cal's Universal Reel and Drag Grease.  But, in my own experience, Shimano Drag Grease goes on like an thick oil versus Cal's is thicker. If glazing occurs, that means that the grease is no longer present."

Bryan,
Maybe I didn't put enough Shimano grease? What are the differences between the Carbontex and Ht-100's? That shop owner sure didn't like the HT's.
I see that he sell's Cal's grease but not sure if he sell's Shimano grease. I didn't have time to ask him anymore questions.
As for my glazed HT's, it transformed completely into a different matter. It became solid and shiney discs compared to its original state.
Anybody else had this experience?

[Bryan Young]

"Jim will be able to respond regarding the comparison between Shimano Drag Grease and Cal's Universal Reel and Drag Grease.  But, in my own experience, Shimano Drag Grease goes on like an thick oil versus Cal's is thicker. If glazing occurs, that means that the grease is no longer present."

Bryan,
Maybe I didn't put enough Shimano grease? What are the differences between the Carbontex and Ht-100's? That shop owner sure didn't like the HT's.
I see that he sell's Cal's grease but not sure if he sell's Shimano grease. I didn't have time to ask him anymore questions.
As for my glazed HT's, it transformed completely into a different matter. It became solid and shiney discs compared to its original state.
Anybody else had this experience?

I believe Jim told me that Cal's did a comparison between Shimano and Cal's and during long runs, the shimano grease would disapate at a lower temperature.  The grease is great stuff, but probably best if fishing where long runs are not a norm.  Sorry i could not be of more help in the explaination.

[patlao]

adjust the drag on a reel so that a 5 pound drag setting will allow a 5 pound weight to drop one foot every 5 seconds.

How do you accomplish this 5-5-5 rule?

[MarkT]

" What are the differences between the Carbontex and Ht-100's?"

I believe it's just in the weave.  They're both the same material.

[akfish]

But Penn uses non-Teflon grease on its drag washers. The grease on the star drag Fathoms and Squalls looks just like Penn blue grease. Am i missing something, or is Penn?

[alantani]

duragel is supposed to be the product they use on international drags, and presumably others.  it's interesting, though, because i've seen blue grease on the drags of reels that they import from china, just like you have.  i'm wondering if someone missed that memo........   

[Bryan Young]

I recall that PENN selected that special formulated and proprietary grease as it could be used on every part of the reel, including drag washers...their all purpose grease.  It may not have the best performance on drag washers but sufficient performance for most applications.

[CapeFish]

Daiwa apparently also has a special grease they use on their top end Saltiga spinners, something else to consider?

[exp2000]

Daiwa apparently also has a special grease they use on their top end Saltiga spinners, something else to consider?

Alan Hawke ranks the Daiwa 555 grease the best:

I do not grease drag washers that are made of felt, rather I lightly oil them with synthetic oil if needed.

For carbon fibre drag washers, Cal's is pretty good, as is Shimano's Star Drag Grease, but the best drag grease available now is Daiwa's 555. I used to use some excellent drag greases from Fisherman in the past, but the 555 is something else and to me it's vastly superior to anything available. From my experience in a cold drag all perform similarly, but it's when the drag gets hot that I feel the 555 shining and maintaining better drag consistency. It also lasts longer before needing a change. 
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