tld 20/30 II

Started by alantani, December 07, 2008, 05:14:07 PM

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alantani

here's the schematic for the shimano tld 20 two speed.

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/04-TLD20II_ARB_v1_m56577569830571880.pdf

http://mikesreelrepair.com/schematics/schematic.php?url=Shimano/Shimano%20TLD%2020%202sp.pdf

and here's the reel.  



i've got four of these.  they do double duty for local albacore and san diego long range.  and they've killed alot of fish.  straight out of the box, the tld 20 two speed is perfectly servicable.  an oversized handle helps tremendously, and several manufacturers offer one. the remaining upgrades are nice, but not essential.  the rebuild you're about to see is tedious, but not overly difficult.  keep everything in order, stay organized and you should be fine.  

let's start on the left side first.  back out the cross bar bolts (b) (key #193) and grease the screw holes.  



now to the right side plate.  remove the pre-program dial (key #151), the dial spring (key #152), the lever shaft body and "o" seal as a unit (key #154 and 153), and the drag control lever (key #155).  leave the leve thrust washer (key # 196) in place.



remove the lever quadrant (key #236) and screws (key #158, 159 and 161).



flip the reel over and remove the two side plate screw (B)'s (key #406).



flip the reel back upright and remove the five side plate screw (A)'s (key #164)



separate the frame, spool and right side plate.



take apart the rod clamp assembly (key #224, 225, 226, 227), grease the bolts and reassemble the rod clamp assembly.



lightly grease the clicker assembly.



grease the cross bar bolt (A)'s (key #189).



the frame is done.  now on to the spool.  the first thing that i noted was that the cooling shield (spool cap) was loose.  



remove pinion gear (A) (key #201), pinion gear (B) (key #202), the cooling shield (key #171), and the drag plate assembly (key #174, 246, 172, and 203).  note the excess grease on the drag washer.  



remove the cross pin (key #229), the click gear (key #183) and screws (key #184).





remove the main shaft assembly.  i've put it back together so that you can see how it fits together when it's actually inside the spool, then taken it apart again.  





note the stock "()()" configuration of the preload spring B's (belleville pressure washers).  



i pried off the shields of all three spool bearings (key #570 and 569), cleaned all the grease out with carb cleaner and compressed air, and relubed the bearings with corrosion x.  as discussed previously, i believe that shimano has the right idea regarding the use of open bearings.



i've lined everything up again so that you can see the new configuration for the main shaft.  i'll remove a bearing thrust washer (key #42A) and add one extra preload spring B (key #40A).  



the new configuration for the preload spring B's is "((())".



install the click gear (key #183) and click gear screws (key #184).



pull out the drag washer (key #246).



clean off the excess grease.



apply a light coat of grease to the spool and both sides of the drag washer.  





clean off all the excess grease.





install the right spool bearings (key #569) and pressure release spring (key #176).



you will notice a great deal of play in the drag plate assembly.  we're going to fix this.  first, remove the seal lock (key #174).



the drag plate assembly separates into four pieces.



apply 4 layers of masking tape to the back of the drag plate (key #245), then cut out the center hole.



put the drag plate assembly back together.  the seal lock will have to be pushed into position with a flat screwdriver.  



take a very sharp knife and cut the tape around the pre-load spring A (key #172).



peel up the excess masking tape.  



install the drag plate assembly.



install the cooling shield (key #171) using the special wrench (key #146).  Remember, it came loose from the factory.



install the cross bar (key #229).



install the spool assembly back into the frame.  note that some older reels only fit in ONE way.  if you find that the spool does not slide back and forth easily, pull the spool out and rotate the main shaft 180 degrees.  this works!



this is the right main side plate bearing (key #571).  this bearing is often the first to rust.  let's pull it out and pack it with grease.  



remove the push button shield (key #91) and screws (key #90).



ok, here's the tricky part.  you need to remove the handle bolt plate assembly.   back out the handle bold plate screw (key #92), but leave everything else in place.



place your right index finger over the screw (key #92) and slide plate spring (key #93).  push the slide plate (key #94) "in" and lift off the handle bolt plate assembly as a unit.  don't let the spring go "boing!"



set the assembly down in a safe place.



remove the handle bolt assembly as a unit (key #69, 147 and 148).



remove the handle assembly (key #471) and drive shaft shield (key #150).

now carefully lift the side plate, leaving the drive shaft and gear assembly on your working surface.  please resist the temptation to disturb the drive shaft and gear assembly.





now, who says that these old penn wrenches are useless?  i've bent the end of this one and turned it into a bearing puller.  



out comes the right main sideplate bearing (key #571).



here's the back side.



here's the front with the shield and retaining ring carefully removed.



the bearing was packed with grease.



the shield and retaining ring were replaced and re-installed.



re-install the drive shaft and main gear assembly.



install the drive shaft shield (key #150) and the new handle.



grease the handle arm and install the handle bolt assembly.  tighten until the the handle bold aligns with the handle bolt plate (key #2A).  use good mechanical judgement in tightening the handle bolt.  



install the handle bolt plate assembly.  take care to cover and not lose the spring.



install the push button shield.



check the push "low" button shaft to see that it locks into low gear properly.  if not, the push button shield screws (key #90) are probably too tight.  back off the screws a quarter turn at a time until the push button functions properly.



this is a shot of the anti-reverse dog assembly.  under a heavy load, this assembly may fail.  it might be a good idea to keep an extra set on hand so that you can be field strip the reel and replace the dog if necessary.  call shimano at (877) 577-0600 and ask for a c-lock (key #69), two dogs (key #338), a guard screw (key #167), a guard against dog (key #340), a dog spring guide (key #341) and a dog spring (key #342).  





install pinion gear A and B (key #201 and 202).



install the right side plat assembly.



grease the screw holes and install the side plate screw A's (key #164).



install side plate screw B's (key #406).



install the lever quadrant (key #236) and screws (key #161, 158 and 159).



install the drag control lever (key #155) and push it to the "free" position.



install the lever shaft body (key #153 and 153) and dial spring (key #152).



install the preprogram dial (key #151) and you're done!





send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

alantani

QuoteThe question I have is on my TLD 15. Decided to leave the bellevilles/spacers alone for now (glad I did-fewer variables to troubleshoot my problem). Degreased and oiled the 2 spool and 1 drag plate bearings (they were open).  Changed the drag washer to greased Carbontex. The only other thing I did was some 1200 grit polishing on the inside of the pinion gear and the spool shaft where the pinion rides - saw that on a thread on Bloody Decks you were part of. The drag feels great and the freespool is up to 35-40 seconds with 10# strike setting. The issue is I noticed when checking freespool that tilting the reel 45* to the right (like a right-handed caster would) causes the spool to stop in seconds (even when it's hauling #### at the start).  Tilting to the left does nothing (might even help a little).  I've got a TLD 20 single-speed that's never been apart, and tilting it left or right during freespool has no effect on it. I've used your site and the drawing to check my reassembly 3 times. Have you ever heard of this?  Any suggestions? Should I be concerned?

yeah, this "tilting to the right and stopping" business is found in any reel with a bearing sleeve that is cut too long.  the "c-clip" on the spool shaft that sits next to the right spool bearing functions as a bearing sleeve and it is "too long."  to fix it, you either need to shim the bearing cup or remove the c-clip and cut a bearing sleeve to fit.  as for the pinion gear, don't bother polishing it.  it actually does not affect freespool.  alan
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

alantani

wish i could have been there.  thank you, erik!

Quote

Bula Alan. I've been waiting for the day I'd witness this...and Sunday it happened!
Catastrophic TLD frame failure.....only I figured it'd be one of my 25's, not the 50 LRS.
After 30mins of trying to wrestle the  tuna up from the deep, we sunset'd just past the strike button and 5mins later
the reel blew apart with about 1/3 of our line still out. With 2 of us handlining and one handreeling we managed to land the sucker... 128 lbs !
Our new boat record for tuna.
Drag was set at 21lb strike and the frame failed at 27lbs. ( we tested the reel afterwards )
So, I'm back on the hunt for yet another 2sp 50 frame..... but I'm still a shimano guy for sure!
Cheers
Erik










just by happenstance, a new frame is already en route to erik in fiji for another reel, but he's going to need a tiburon frame after this.  alan
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

AJ

"apply 4 layers of masking tape to the back of the drag plate (key #245), then cut out the center hole."

How long does the masking tape hold up or does it need to be replaced after a year or two?
Robb 

alantani

not sure.  it doesn't have to do alot.  i have a metal washer that i've used for a long time now. 
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

AJ

Do you have a part number for the washer?

alantani

somewhere.  it's from mcmaster.com.  i can send you one if you wish.  just send a pm with your address.
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

DEA

Hey Alan, what kinda drag numbers can be reasonably expected after working over the TLD20/30 2spd?

alantani

18 pounds at strike is pretty much the best working load for this reel.  hard to go much higher. 
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

sydluxer

Thanks for the tutorial, used it for servicing my old TLD 20 II a couple of times.

Only problem after I replaced the broken anti reverse plastic spring sleeve and spring the drag now is very light first and then comes on extremely heavy past strike.

As said, I serviced the reel before and it worked perfectly the first time. I opened and re-assembled 4 times and it's still the same with the drag. Now maybe the problem was, that the reel got dunked a few times and then stored with drag at strike for 6 months (stupid I know) before I serviced it. Internals looked fine to me, no rust etc. The drag washer might be a bit worn, could this be the problem?

Please help :)

PS: If this is the wrong place to post, sorry and please delete.

Thanks!
Felix

Bryan Young

Welcome Felix.

Three places I would look are worn Belleville washers, work drag washer and pressure plate spring.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

SoCalAngler

#11
I just worked on a TLD 30II where there was alot of play in the spool. As I tightened the drag knob it moved so much there was a grinding noise. When I opened it up I took the spool shaft out to look at the belleville washers and as I did metal parts fell out. On a closer look the C lock #0179 fell out in three pieces. This reel has a Carbontex drag washer and a after market drag plate. The problem seems the owner leaves the drag engaged at full or close to fish fighting pressure when not fishing the reel. Not sure this is the problem you have but in order to engage the drag with enough pressure to fished the adjustment knob needed to be screwed to tight that the drag went from nothing to very hard with slight movement of the lever.

With some after market parts these reels can be fished with plenty of drag over stock. Here is a pic of my TLD 30 II.

sydluxer

Thanks a lot Bryan and SoCalAngler! And sorry for the late reply.

The pressure plate spring and Belleville washers look good to me, as well as the C lock. However the drag washer looks compressed and a little worn this might be the reason.

I'm overseas at the moment, will order a new smooth drag washer when back. Would be a good investment anyway. I looked at the website and can't find any for the TLD20 II. Am I blind or is there none?

Regards,
Felix

alantani

the tld 20 and 30 two speed already have carbon fiber dragss.
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

sydluxer

Thanks Alan. I'll just order a new pair of factory washers and a new couple of springs. If that doesn't cut it, a pro will have to repair it for me.