alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial 111 senator
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
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alantani
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« on: December 07, 2008, 09:26:15 AM »

here's a real gem.  not many of them left.  they are still used by northern california salmon fishermen to drag 2.5 pound lead balls on sinker releases.  the low gear ratio makes this reel well suited for that purpose.  



this particular reel still has the original handle, a brass gear sleeve and a stack of three old drag washers.  what i'm going to do is install a new stainless steel gear sleeve from mysticparts.com, a penn jigmaster power handle and i'm going to change the drag stack from "1+3" to 1+5".  the greater number of drag washers will deliver more drag range and the stainless steel gear sleeve and larger handle will allow us to crank under this heavier load.  



if you are considering a full conversion like this, bear in mind that you will have to dremmel out the side plate a little.  if you wish to simply upgrade the drag to a "stock" configuration, you will need a fiber washer under the gear (part #4-60) and three carbon fiber washers inside the gear (part #6-113).  our full upgrade requires one #6-113 drag washer under the gear, five #6-60 drag washers inside the gear, a full set of five #7C-60 metal washers, a #24-56 jigmaster power handle, a #98-60at stainless steel gear sleeve, and, most importantly, and couple of extra #14-99 dog springs.  go here for a schematic and a list of parts.  

https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/Penn111.pdf

ok, let's crack it open.  start with the left side plate screws (key #'s 39 and 39a). remove the left side plate (key #27).



note the different length of the bottom screw (key #39a).



the clickers of these older reels are riveted in and they rust.  it really makes a mess.



the rust gets everywhere.



normally what i'd do is throw everything into the ultrasonic cleaner for a couple of hours.  that won't help you, so let's just clean it up with an old toothbrush and a little grease.  



a little yamaha elbow grease works works wonders.



same with the chrome-over-brass spool (key #29).  



there!  big improvement and it now has a light coat of grease that will slow down further corrosion.  



take a moment to clean up the stand (key #30) and frame posts (key #37).



let's back out, grease and reinstall the inner stand screws (key #38a) and inner post screws (key #32).







reinstall the left side plate (key #27) and screws (key #'s 39 and 39a).  



now for right side.  let's remove the handle first.  start with the handle lock screw (key #23a).



remove the handle screw (key #23).  i had a custom wrench made a while back.  



been a while since this reel had been serviced.



remove the handle (key #24).



remove the star drag wheel (key #10).



remove the spacing sleeve (key #9).



remove the right side plate screws (key #'s 31 and 38).



again, note that the center screw (key #31) is shorter.



if you have trouble removing the side plate, try tapping around the inside lip with a small swiss army knife.



 

remove, grease and reinstall the right inner frame screws (key #32) and right inner stand screws (key #38).



let's take the opportunity now to brush things up a little.



remove the lower (key #16) and upper (key #17) bridge screws.



the bridge assembly (key #3) should simply fall out.



the first thing you are looking for is the dog spring (key #14).



find the dog (key #15).



set them both aside, someplace safe.



now for the brige assembly (key #'s 98 and 3-8).



if you have trouble removing the main gear, try giving the flat sides of the gear sleeve (key #98) a couple of strokes of a flat file.  this usually works.  



the drag stack was pretty much fused together.  only one metal drag washer was functioning.  yeah, it was the shiny one.  



we need to punch out the brass pin holding the gear sleeve in.  a small punch works well for this.  some can just be pushed out, some need to be hammered.  all i did was lean on this one and it slid right out.  





corrosion x (in a reel x bottle) works well here.



install the new stainless steel gear sleeve (part #98-60 at).  channel locks work well to press the pin in.  if the pin sticks out a little, a flat file can easily take off the edge.  



here's the new line up.  i've added an extra pair of metal washers.  they alternate keyed, slotted, keyed, slotted, keyed.  in between the metal washers go a set of five #6-60 penn ht-100 drag washers.  underneath the main gear (key #5) goes a #6-113 drag washer.  this is the combination that i've found will give the best performance.  



slap a thick coat of cal's drag grease on each drag washer and rebuild the stack.  don't worry about the excess.  it will just squeeze out the sides.  



here's the fourth slotted metal washer.  note that it has to nest inside the gear and it barely fits.  this is fine as long as you get full drag range.  if this metal washer rides up and rotates a few degrees, it will sit on top of the gear.  the star will not travel as far when turned down and you will only get a few pounds of drag.  



the last carbon fiber washer and metal keyed metal washer sit above the lip of the main gear.  no problem.



when you put some pressure on the drag stack, it squeezes right down.  we're done here.  let's set it aside.  




the toothbrush (and the dental pick) are getting a real workout today.  





now, we're going to have to do a little more modification then is required for the typical reel.  a note of caution here.  we will grinding away at the inside of this old, brittle, plastic side plate.  i've done this plenty of times and have had no problems.  your results may vary.  see these three steps?  they need to be ground down and rounded off a little.



the dremmel and a round bit will do the job very nicely.  compressed air makes the clean up quick.  



here are the final results.  





there is now just barely enough clearance for the main gear and metal washers when it is under no pressure from the star.  



let's line everything up in order of installation.  


first, note that you have upper bridge screws (key #17) that are only partially threaded, and lower bridge screws (key #16) that are threaded the entire length.



install the bridge screws.



cover the bridge screws with your index and middle fingers.  hold the right side plate between your thumb and ring finger.  your pinky sticks out because this is a high class joint catering to high class people.  



now you can flip the side plate upside down and not worry about the screws falling out.  



install the clutch springs (key #18) on the upper bridge screws.  this is the reason the screws are not threaded the entire length.



install the pinion yoke (key # 12) and pinion gear (key #13) as a unit.



install the eccentric jack (key #11).



install the bridge/main gear assembly and turn it 90 degrees counterclockwise.  



push down with your thumb and install the dog (key # 15).



now turn the bridge clockwise until it covers all but half of the last lower bridge screw.



ok, here's the million dollar trick to installing the dog spring.  see the gap?



lay the dog spring inside the gap.



now push the dog spring down into the gap.  careful here.  if you miss, the dog spring could fly off into never never land.  you did order a couple of back ups, right?



ok, it's in.  now rotate the bridge that last few degrees until you hear a "click" and the bridge is in it's proper position.  



with a right hand assist, flip the side plate over and start each screw half way.



now tighten down each bridge screw.



done!  you've just rebuild the right side plate of a penn 111.  oh yeah. you can breathe now....



install the spacing sleeve (key #9).



install the star (key #10).



put a drop of corrosion x in the left side bushing (key #40).....



... and the right side bushing (key # 26).



install the spool (key #29).



install the right side plate assembly and screws.  remember, one is short.  



adjust the left side bushing (key #40) until you have zero load and zero free play.



watch it spin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



install the handle (key #24).  in this case, it's a #24-56 jigmaster power handle.



install the handle screw (key #23).



install the handle lock screw (key #23a).



lube the handle.



.... and done!  for general maintenance, my recommendation is to strip off all the line after every trip.  yes, you read that correctly.  line is cheap.  get rid of the old stuff.  rinse the reel with fresh water, shake it out, dry it, respool it and reset the drag.  if the freespool slows down, back out both bushings, clean them with a Q tip, lube them with corrosion x and reinstall then.  if needed, order up new bushings.  they are also very cheap.  this particular reel benched out at 15 pounds.  more than enough for our local salmon.  it should hold up for a very long time.




"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 07:59:24 AM by mizmo67 » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2010, 05:31:34 PM »

Put away the Dremel!!! Shocked
I just rebuilt my 111 and upgraded it with a 1+5 drag, stainless steel gear sleeve and a Kolekar 2/0 reel grip. Instead of using 6-60 washers for the drag, I used Smoothdrag #10 Carbontex washers. The top metal washer fits flush with the top of the main gear. THANK YOU, DAWN and PETE!! Grin Grin

Here's what you have to do that's different:
Get five of the #10 Carbontex washers [20.5 x 8.1 x 0.5 mm] and drill out the centers with a 13/32 or 27/64" drill bit so they'll fit over the gear sleeve. I put two of the washers at a time between two old #7-60 metal washers and held the stack in a vise with pliers on the topside. Be careful as the 0.5mm washers are real thin and can tear if you rush things.
Now build your gear sleeve with a #6-113 washer under the main gear, main gear, drag washer stack [5 cf+5 metal washers], belleville washer and the spacer sleeve. Assemble the reel per the rest of the tutorial and you should be good to go. Smiley

I have 16# max drag with a full spool of 50# braid and a 30# top shot. I plan to use the heck out of this reel next season to see how the thin drag washers hold up. I'll post the results.

Rob
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 10:44:44 AM by norcal pescador » Logged

Rob

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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 10:48:50 PM »

they are very nice reels, aren't they!
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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2011, 05:23:16 AM »

Quote "they are very nice reels, aren't they!"

Yes they are, Alan. 
Thank you for another great tutorial.  I went with the 5-drag stack, too.  However, I replaced the washer under the main gear with a stock 4-60 fiber washer and had enough clearance so I didn't have to dremel out the right sideplate (something I was reluctant to do).  I realize I loose a few pounds of drag, compared to your rebuild, but this works for me.

George     
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2011, 08:06:33 AM »

Gearge, just out of curiosity, how much drag are you getting out of this little reel? I  think that pushing this reel over 10 pound of drag will eventually strip the gears. I kept the 3 drags configuration in mine and replaced the washers with carbontex and also the one under the main gear, the reel works great, I wouldn't push it over 8. When I get around to it, I will also replace the gear sleeve with a stainless steel one, that's a good upgrade, thanks to Alan.  Take care, Sal
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 08:18:27 AM by Alto Mare » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2011, 09:55:47 AM »

Sal,
When I did my 1+5 above, my objective was to get more drag without having to bear down so hard on the drag wheel. As long as you're mindful of the line and gear capacity, you should be okay with the 25-33% factor.
Rob
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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2011, 10:39:36 AM »

I'm not sure Sal, as I don't have a scale to measure it.  I'm not going to push the limits of this fine old reel, anyway.  I will try it for light bottom fishing off of California's Channel Islands.

I'm rebuilding all of my old school Penns with new HT100 drag washers and lubing them with Cal's grease.  These tutorials are a great help.

George   
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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2011, 11:32:44 AM »

Hey Rob, I get what you're saying. I still think that adding the additional drags will increase the chance of domaging the gears, all that mindfulness goes away when the fish is on.... for me anyway. I'm not arguing with you, you're a knowlegeable person and I'm learning a lot from you, this is only my opinion. I'm keeping the same original configuration on my reel, simply becouse it's working just fine for me.Take care, Sal


Geoge, I'm glad you're bringing those old Penn reels back to life. I'm also a Penn guy and still use them today,you're right about the tutorials, these guys are great. Take care, Sal
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 02:39:14 PM by Alto Mare » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2011, 11:44:39 AM »

Hey Rob, I get what you're saying. I still think that adding the additional drags will increase the chance of domaging the gears, all that mindfulness goes away when the fish is on.... for me anyway. . . . . . I'm keeping the same original configuration on my reel, simply becouse it's working just fine for me.Take care, Sal


Geoge, I'm glad you're bringing those old Penn reels back to life. I'm also a Penn guy and still use them today,you're wright about the tutorials, these guys are great. Take care, Sal

Hey, Sal -
I agree with you about being mindful with the fish on. Grin  This was one reel I wanted to tinker with and I hope I don't start crankin' the star down when I get a 30# lingcod on the other end. It's strictly for bottom fishing and I ended up with straight 30# mono on it. If I blow the gears out I'll get a new set and rebuild it to stock.  I love every one of my (10) Penns. And the Newell 220 and Daiwa 350H are okay, too. Wink  Keep up the good work George! Cool
Rob
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2011, 02:16:11 PM »

Hey Rob what do you mean 10 Penn reels, is that all?  Shocked
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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2011, 04:29:33 PM »

Thank you all, I'm surprised by the amount of interest my post generated.

When I started rebuilding my 111 it was more about how much I can stuff under the hood, not about significantly improving performance.  I don't want to abuse this reel. 

It's enjoyable reading other people's comments about Penns on this forum.  When I go salt water fishing the only old school Penns I see are Jigmasters, and if it doesn't have bling, no one else is interested.

George
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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2011, 02:35:07 AM »

George,

Many of us have Penns - some are really addicted to them.  Have a look at Broadway's (Dom's) really beautiful collection.

I almost exclusively use Penns, most older ones - 146's, 501's 112H's 113h's, and occasionally if I'm lucky, 114H's as well.  I've even got about 5 spining reels, from 420SS's to 7500SSJ's.  They are great, especially the hi-speed Senators.  I've fallen in love with them by accident - and upgrade them with frames, stainless gearsets, drags, and vintage handles, as a hobby, as well as try to fish them to death - but they'll outlast me!

The upgrades are extensive, can be quite expensive, but somehow, if you've got those Penn sideplates at the rail, and they are performing like the new stuff - it feels good!!!

Look after your 111 - that is one I haven't got, and to be honest, it should last you a lifetime if you don't push it too far.  Enjoy it.  Ask if you have more questions - many will help, in addition to Alan.

Simon.
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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2011, 02:39:39 AM »

And from memory, Penn was using steel for those gears, then.  As they were for the early 112H's and 113H's.  They are a little stronger (maybe a little less smooth) then the later brass ones - is that right Alan?
Simon
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« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2011, 03:05:21 AM »

Simon, I'm going to take a chance and answer this one. You are right, gears used to be stainless steel, Penn switched to full brass along the way for the main gear, keeping the pinion stainless steel. In the late 90's Penn introduced the managanese bronze for the main gear . This material is much stronger than solid brass, this would reduce gear teeth stripping. Nice to see guys still using Penn. Take care, Sal Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2011, 03:19:11 PM »

yeah, steel main gears rattled and rusted.  stainless would still rattle, it would never rust, but was probably too expensive for penn at the time.  the manganese/bronze alloy main gears are a nice compromise.  not as strong, but very quiet. 
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