DRIVE SHAFT BUSHING vs BEARING

[LTM]

Experts,

Im trying to decide is it worth it to replace the drive shaft bushing with a bearing on some of my reels. Here are my thoughts/questions:

1. The location of this bushing typically exposes it to salt water ingress from fishing and rinsing the reel with fresh water from clean-up after fishing. I've serviced numerous reels where the bushing or bearing was shot due to corrosion from salt water ingress.

2. Because of its location and ease of rusting-out, I would think that a bushing would be better than a bearing from a pure maintenance/replacement perspective.  Ive seen bushings made from brass and even plastic (which seems better than brass in regards to corrosion).

3, In regards to smoothness when rotating/turning the handle; I realize that the bearing will be better up to a point.  I say up to a point because once the brass bushing becomes lapped/smoothed from usage it should be close to the bearing in smoothness.

4. I dont know if load is applied to this bushing/bearing when fishing; if so it would seem that the bushing would be more durable under a load.

5. These little bearings are expensive, so is there an advantage to using the bearing vs the bushing; if so what is it?

6. Ive noticed that in quite a few of the toutorials that this bearing is often over looked in regards to inspection and service, whats-up-with-that?

Thanx in advance for your input/comments,

Leo

[redsetta]

G'day Leo,
I don't mind having drive shaft bearings in baitcasters, but generally prefer bushings for exactly the reasons you've outlined.
It's a similar story for line-roller bearings in spinner bail arms.
I often replace them with nylon bushings because the failure rate is so high...
Hope that's of some assistance.
Cheers, Justin

[Makule]

2. Because of its location and ease of rusting-out, I would think that a bushing would be better than a bearing from a pure maintenance perspective.  Ive seen bushings made from brass and even plastic (which seems better than brass in regards to corrosion).

The issue of BB vs bushing has been discussed on another thread so review those comments for a more general discussion.  Ideally, the issue of maintenance doesn't become an issue since service should be a routine matter.  Real life is not like that so if the maintenance issue is the main one, then a "plastic" bushing should last the longest.  I don't recall what the material is called, but there is something that is routinely used for bushing and is quite durable (used in car starters, etc).  You would need the bushing to be custom made for your application.

3, In regards to smoothness when rotating/turning the handle; I realize that the bearing will be better up to a point.  I say up to a point because once the brass bushing becomes lapped/smoothed from usage it should be close to the bearing in smoothness.

It's unclear which bushings/bearing you are referring to, but I am assuming these are the end cap bearings/bushings (on the side plates).  Yes, bushings do get polished, but they later become worn (hole becomes oblong) and then serious vibration problems start to occur (during casting).

4. I dont know if load is applied to this bushing/bearing when fishing; if so it would seem that the bushing would be more durable under a load.

Probably the greatest points of stress on a reel next to the gears.

5. These little bearings are expensive, so is there an advantage to using the bearing vs the bushing; if so what is it?

Depending on availability, bushings should be less expensive.  Maintained, BB should last longer for "like new" performance.

6. Ive noticed that in quite a few of the toutorials that this bearing is often over looked in regards to inspection and service, whats-up-with-that?

Not sure what you are referring to as bearings are one of the things that are routinely inspected/cleaned/changed.  Bearing and drag washers are the two most common replacements/modifications.

[LTM]

Makule, and Redsetta,

Thanx gents for your responses.

Makule, the specific bearing/bushing im referring to in this post is the bushing/bearing located at the very bottom end of the drive shaft which the main gear and drag stack sit on. Im not referring to any other bushing/bearing in the reel (not end cap bushing/bearing), I didnt mean to confuse. I guess the rest of my points will make more sense now.  If you know of other posts on this particular bearing/bushing location at the bottom of the drive shaft I would appreciate it (I looked but may have missed it). You do have a point in regards to wear vs like new performance with regular maintenance in favor of the bearing.

Redsetta, in regards to nylon/plastic bushings on line rollers is exactly what I was thinking about for my spinners!!!  Where do I get them from?  In regards to the plastic/nylon bushings in bait casters is one of the reasons I ask; my Calcutta te300, Luna 203, have BB and other bait casters dont.  Also Trinidad's and Saltiga's have them as well, and these are larger size reel that can handle 50# braid.  So again, back to my question of "high-end" star drag reels having them (mostly) and others not; is it worth it and why?

Thanx gents

[Irish Jigger]

G'day Leo,
I don't mind having drive shaft bearings in baitcasters, but generally prefer bushings for exactly the reasons you've outlined.
It's a similar story for line-roller bearings in spinner bail arms.
I often replace them with nylon bushings because the failure rate is so high...
Hope that's of some assistance.
Cheers, Justin

x2 especially on replacing  the spinner bail arm bb's which are unprotected and don't like salt water.

[alantani]

it's all about trade offs.  if you use a bearing, it has to be packed with grease or it will fail much more quickly. 

[basto]

I find Quantum "hot sauce" very good on bail arm line bearings. It hangs on well for an oil and I apply it after every outing, after a hose with water.
I don`t need to remove the bearing to apply it.

[Nessie Hunter]

My opinion of this Bearing/bushing is:
Mostly a sales tactic for More Ball bearings in the reel.
Add $40 to price for that one!!! lol
I dont think anyone could tell whether a reel has a bushing or bearing in that location.
it only turns with the handle, no high heat, friction or freespool type spinning needed.

Actually the "plate" that holds the Drive shaft at the bottom takes a lot more of a beating IMO...
That bearing/bushing acts more as a guide then anything else... 

Brass or Hard Nylon, I have seen some Black plastic/nylon bushings that seem hard enough to do to do the job......

Grease it well.....

.

[drewsung]

Can someone tel me the bearing size for a TN20?  I need to replace the drive shaft bearing because it rusted out and broke into pieces.

[Bunnlevel Sharker]

Figured I'd bump this up, but a brass bushing gets better as it ages, it becomes conditioned

[erikpowell]

Can someone tel me the bearing size for a TN20?  I need to replace the drive shaft bearing because it rusted out and broke into pieces.

I know it's 6x10x3 for a TN50.... part # is TGT0458
you could cross reference the part# for the TN20 and see if they are the same...might be.

The similar Torium has a bushing instead of a bearing there... I ordered both when I fixed my TN50 and the bushing worked.. but i opted for the bearing instead.

On the TN50 i'm referring to, that same bearing had broken into pieces like yours did... but it didn't finish there.. the busted bearing gouged up & wore out the bearing cup part of the set plate... so I had to replace the whole plate... that's why i was going to replace the bearing with a bushing..  Make sure you pack that bearing with grease when you replace it!



While you're at it, consider trying this upgrade.... http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=509.0
the parts are cheap, it's an easy one, and your TN20 will be more reliable, and sound cooler too! 

Good luck!

[Makule]

Makule, the specific bearing/bushing im referring to in this post is the bushing/bearing located at the very bottom end of the drive shaft which the main gear and drag stack sit on.

On a large (14/0) Everol that I worked on recently, there was considerable play when cranking the handle.  As it turned out, a bearing was used to hold the "drive shaft" in place and it was rusted out (literally).  In consulting with the company, they advised not to replace it with the bearing, but to put in a bushing.  The explanation was exactly because the bearings were found to be particularly vulnerable to rusting and becoming useless (before breaking apart).  I cut a brass bushing and fit it in the reel and it worked well.

I'm very pleased with the communications I've had with Everol (Paolo in Italy), as he has been very helpful and honest about what to do and what their experiences with their products have been.  Rather than just try to sell parts to make a buck, he has advised me on several issues associated with the reel and I've been able to address them without buying a single replacement part.  He could have charged me for some springs in the brake assembly, but sent them all without cost.  In my view, I'd get a large Everol two speed in a shake if I could ever find one at an affordable price.  Heck, I'd even sell some of my Senators to afford it (which is like heresy for me).

[Dominick]

  Heck, I'd even sell some of my Senators to afford it (which is like heresy for me).

Heretic... blasphemer... troglodyte   Dominick

[Makule]

  Heck, I'd even sell some of my Senators to afford it (which is like heresy for me).

Heretic... blasphemer... troglodyte   Dominick

All in the name of Everol.

[redsetta]

Good call mate, Everols are spectacular.