trinidad 30

[alantani]

this arrived in the mail last month. 



and with it came a note. 



i called the owner and we spoke for quite a while.  i carefully explained to him what i thought the cause was, what his options were and where i thought this reel would now fit in his arsenal.  what we finally settled on were carbontex drags, an anti-reverse roller bearing, tube and dog, and an oversized handle grip. 



first, go to the shimano website for the schematic.

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/tn_30_v1_m56577569830570264.pdf

to service the spool bearings, remove the left side plate screws (key #767).



remove the left side plate assembly (key #307).



remove the spool (key #498).



i see plenty of corroded rod clamps (key #351, 352, 353, and 354). let's grease the bolts so we don't have to worry about this anymore. 









now for the right spool bearing. remove the four brake shaft holder screws (key #312), the brake shaft holder (key #313) and the four brake collars (key #257).  this will make it easier to remove the right spool bearing.  for a spool this big, the brakes are of limited benefit.  they will not be re-installed. 



the right spool bearing (no key #) is 6x12x4mm and is rusted.  it's a common problem.  to remove the bearing, we need to remove the cross pin (no key #).  squeeze the cross pin halfway with a pair of vise grips that have a slot cut it in. 





now we're going to use the drill press to push the pin out the rest of the way.  i've tried to punch them out freehand.  it's not easy. 







install the new bearing and cross pin.





center the cross pin with the vise grips.



the left side plate bearing (key #484) is 4x11x4mm.  remove the bearing retainer (key #318).



loosen the three "br" set plate screws (key #328) that surround the bearing.



pull the bearing out with your bearing pulling tool.



this bearing is fine, so let's clean it out with carb cleaner and compressed air, lube it with corrosion x and re-install it.



torque down the "br" set plate screws (key #328).



reinstall the bearing retainer (key #318).



put a very tiny bead of grease in the screw holes, or better yet, on the screws themselves.



install the spool (key #498).



install the side plate assembly (key #340) and add a thin film of grease around the screw hole. 



torque down the left side plate screws (key #767)



now watch it spin!!!!!!!!!!!!!



now for the right side.  first, remove the handle nut plate screw (key #128).



remove the handle nut and plate (key #'s 261 and 262).



remove the handle (key #495) and drive shaft shield (key #264).





remove the star drag (key #265).



remove the click pin (key #295) and click spring (key #296). 





remove the star drag washer (key #266), the drag spring washer 9L (key #267), the drag spring washer 9H (key #268), the bearing thrust washer (key #269), and the bearing seal (key #270). 



remove the four right side plate screw A's (key #766).



remove the two right side plate screw C's (key #765).



remove the two right side plate screw D's (key #764).



remove the right side plate (key #932).  note that the right side plate (key #932), the drive shaft bearing (key #486), the roller clutch bearing (key #493), the roller clutch inner tube (key #494) and the line clip (key #280) are removed as a unit.





now we're going to remove the drag stack.  this is important.  do not pull on the main gear (key 292) with the drag washers still in place.  invariably, the anti-reverse ratchet (key #294) is pulled up as well.  this damages the anti-reverse pawl (key #303). 

so, let's carefully remove each washer, one at a time. 







you can see where it's starting to stick.



lift up the main gear (key #292), taking care to separate the main gear from drag washer A (key #418). 



remove drag washer A (key #418).  note that this washer was sticky as well. 



remove the screws (key #305) and pawl keeper (key #306).





carefully remove the anti-reverse ratchet (key #294) and the anti-reverse pawl (key #303) as a unit.



let's take a look at the old pawl compared to a new one.  note the dent and the increased spread of the springs.  this is the reason that the pawl fails. 





re-install the pawl (key #303) and ratched gear (key #294) as a unit.  lube the pawl with corrosion x first. 



re-install the pawl keeper (#306) and screws (key #305).



now we're almost ready to grease and install the new carbontex drag washers.



the carbontex washer that goes underneath the main gear is 1.14 mm thick.



this is a penn ht-100 drag washer from a 4/0 senator, part #6-113h.  it is a little thicker and the inside diameter is just a hair larger.



i had noted that the drag pressure in a few trinidad's maxed out at 15#'s of drag using the thinner carbontex drag washer under the gear.  by substituting the thicker penn ht-100 #6-113h, i was able to get 20#'s or better.  so that's what i do now.  it's no big deal for me, but might prove an inconvenience for you.  this is not a consistent problem, so go with the stock carbontex drag washers first, check the drags, and then consider changing the washer under the gear if there is an issue. 

ok, now were ready!  slap on a coat of cal's drag grease and install the washers.  the excess will squeeze out the sides.



install the drive gear (key #292).



install the carbontex drag washers and metal washers in the order shown above.  apply a generous coat of cal's drag grease to each carbontex drag washer.



install a new roller clutch inner tube (key #494).  a light coat of grease from your fingers is sufficient. 



now we will need to press out the old roller clutch bearing (key #493).  sometimes it will press out easily by hand.  if not, a pair of sockets, 10mm and 22mm will be very helpful.  remove the drive shaft bearing (key # 486) first. 



place the 22mm socked under the side plate for support. use the 10mm socked to press out the roller clutch bearing. 



thumb pressure should be enough to press in the new clutch bearing. 



a light coat of corrosion x is probably the best compromise for lubricating the clutch bearing.  it's difficult because a dry roller bearing will hold better, but rusts too easily.  a heavily greased roller bearing will definitely not rust, but it may also not hold.  accurate uses corrosion x.  i think this gives you the best results as well. 



install the right side plate (key #932).



install the right side plate screws (key #'s 764, 765 and 766). 



pack the drive shaft bearing (key #486) with grease and install it.



install the bearing seal (key #270), the bearing thrust washer (key #269),  the drag spring washer 9H (key #268), the drag spring washer 9L (key #267), and star drag washer (key #266). 



install the click spring (key #296) and click pin (key #295).



to get the star (key #265) back on, there are two techniques.  one is to use a toothpick. simply push the click pin (key #295) down, shove a toothpick into the hole in the drive shaft (key #930), and turn the star (key #265) down over the drive shaft. 



what i do is push the click pin (key #295) down with a small blade.



now slide the drag star washer (key #266) over the click pin (key #295) so that it stays put.  a small bead of grease is helpful here. 



install the star (key #265). 



install the drive shaft shield (key #264).



now for the handle. a full handle assembly is made up of three parts; the arm, the grip and the spindle in the middle.  i had an extra grip and spindle assembly made made by a local machine shop.  first, drill out the back of the original spindle, punch it out, and bolt on the new grip and spindle. 







add a light coat of grease to the handle arm.  install the handle (key #495) and handle nut (key #262).



install the handle nut plate (key #261) and screw (key #128). 



done!



now, for a few comments.  this is another excellent example of greased carbon fiber drag washers actually extending the functional drag range of a reel.  dartanium drag washer system has been noted to become sticky over time, and/or at higher drag ranges.  the stock drags in our reel were already starting to stick.  carbontex with cal's grease will stay smooth forever, and at much higher drag settings.  shimano recently offered and thicker drag pressure plate, a wider side plate and longer drive shaft upgrade for the trinidad because of drag problems with this reel.  it is my opinion that none of this would have been necessary if they would have upgraded the reel to greased carbon fiber. 

i estimate that the drag system will now deliver an easy 25 pounds of drag.  what i noted was that the handle started backing up a little at 22 pounds. this is the anti-reverse roller clutch bearing (key #493) that is starting to slip.  what keeps the handle from moving backwards any further is the anti-reverse pawl (key #303).  if both of these anti-reverse mechanisms fail sequentially, the handle will go knucklebuster on you.  and it has. 

this combination anti-reverse system, gentlemen, is what i believe to be the achilles heel of the shimano trinidad, the shimano torium, the daiwa saltia and the daiwa saltist.  please note that the trinidad 30 is rated on the shimano website for 350 yards of straight 30# mono and a maximum drag of 16.5 pounds.  there is no mention of spectra anywhere, and probably for good reason.  the anti-reverse system appears to limit the functional drag that this side plate can deliver.  the trinidad "30" was apparently designed for straight 30 pound monofilament.  perhaps this is simply a case of too much spool and not enough side plate for spectra. 

now, a discussion of problems is pointless without a discussion of possible solutions.  to beef up the drag system, i see three possible solutions.  first, the anti-reverse pawl could be spring loaded.  the pawl would now click, just like a penn senator.  second, a second anti-reverse pawl could be added.  there is actually room on the opposide side of the ratched gear.  the yoke plate (key #302) could be cut at the blue line to make room for the second pawl. 



and finally, a second anti-reverse roller clutch bearing (key #493) could be added.  simply stack one roller bearing on top of the other.  this is the anti-reverse system that is used in the accurate boss series of reels.  it would require a modification to the side plate, or a new side plate.  it would also require a longer roller bearing tube and longer drive shaft.  personally, i think a double roller bearing system would be the best option. 

[alantani]

Alan, I recently joined up on your very useful website, thanks for that, thanks also for all the posts you put on our South African site Sealine (which now seems to have stopped temporarily). I use Torium 30 and 20 reels for surfcasting and have replaced the dartanium washers with Cal's greased Carbontex on all of them. I have, however, found that if you slacken of the drag to say for example place the rod in a sand spike (to prevent rod and reel being dragged into the sea by a fish), it sticks until you give the handle a quick turn (with spool slipping). After that it is smooth as anything. All of them do that. What is the reason for this? The reels are in excellent condition and I cannot see anything wrong with the drag stack, star drag etc. Could wading be the cause for this? We often wade in fairly deep to cast and your reel gets a thorough dunking then (Shimano seems to stand up best to this punishment). Although I must say that the sticking happens even when I haven't taken a reel for a swim. It is generally not such a big problem as I generally fish with 40lb line, but if I use lighter that initial jam could lead to a break off. I had no problems with the last couple of big sharks that I caught and the drag was smooth even with fish peeling off 500m of line, after it got through the first jerk. On one of our forums a guy complained of losing two sharks in a row because of his Carbontex having that initial jam. He was fishing throw baits so had rod in hand and tightened up immediately where as in my case the fish initially ran on a fairly loose drag before tightening up.  Your comments will be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Leon, South Africa

leon, this is an odd one.  my first thought was that the spool itself was stuck somewhere.  the problem is that a can't think of a single way that the spool could get stuck like that.  there is no place on the left side of the spool that could cause such a problem.  the gap between the spool and frame could have line caught up or corrosion.  removing the left side plate for a quick inspection would answer that question quickly.  at that time, you could inspect both the left and right spool bearings.  for the type of fishing you do, i'll bet that the right spool bearing is corroded already.  it's possible that the bearing could be the cause, but i doubt it, even if it IS corroded. 

if the pinion gear had seized up on the spool shaft, you could not get the reel in and out of gear.  the spool and pinion gear would still spin together as a unit against the main gear.  which leaves the main gear to get stuck against something.  the main gear is in full contact with the carbontex washer UNDERNEATH and the full drag stack inside.  nothing to get stuck here.  there is a possibility that the main gear could be in contact with the side plate, but that would require that the carbontex washers had been installed incorrectly.  the main gear could also be jammed up against something else underneath.  that something would most likely be the dog, so check it again for proper installation. 

try this.  remove the side plate, then re-install the star and handle in the normal manner.  if you can re-create this problem, you might get a visual clue as to where the spool or main gear is getting stuck.  clearly, something is getting stuck against something else.  it's like the children's song, "the foot bone's connected to the ankle bone, the ankle bone's connected to the knee bone, the knee bone's connected ...".  alan

[alantani]

http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/fishing-reels/140259-torium-clicks.html

[alantani]

Hi Alan,

Hope you are well. Not sure if you recall, some time ago I told you about my Toriums and their drags that stick when you loosen the star. I think I solved a problem. A friend brought me his last night with a very strange problem, but there were similarities to what I was experiencing. When you loosened the drag on his Torium the drag stayed tight (much tighter then mine) and the cranking became very stiff. This was strange as the reel had been recently serviced by a pro, but I know my mate opened it and put carbontex in (and he has bungled a couple of things on his reels so I was skeptical) but was adamanet that this problem started when he got the reel back from the pro! Something made me think anti-reverse bearing. Opened the thing only to find gunges of grease in the anti-reverse bearing and on the roller clutch inner tube. The inner tube was really sticky inside the anti-reverse because of all the grease and also on the drive shaft. Took it all out, removed grease, re-lubed with oil, problem solved!

I never put grease on my anti-reverse bearings but I do coat the drive shaft and the clutch inner tube liberally with grease on all my Toriums. Possibly what is happening is that the inner tube is sticking to the drive shaft because of the grease and when you release the drag the inner tube still sticks to the drive shaft keeping the dragstack tight. Locking the spool and turning the handle then causes it to slip back releasing the drag stack. I haven't had a chance to open my reels but am pretty sure I am going to solve the problem cleaning the grease off the inner tube and drive shaft and re-lubing with oil allowing the inner tube to move freely on the drive shaft when the star is backed up.

Regards, Leon

you know, leon, i've never added grease to an anti-reverse roller bearing either. i always add corrosion x to the roller bearings.  interesting, though.  like you, would not expect the grease to cause so much trouble.  alan

[alantani]

Hello Alan, I have a quick question regarding my Shimano Trinidad 20.  As you know, the trinidad has a line retainer at the base of the frame.  I know many people feel it is abrasive and gets in the way of there casting.  I feel the same way, and therefore I removed it with a pair of pliers.  The plastic retainer came out, but left a piece of itself inside the frame.  So it was partly a successful operation.  Will the piece inside the frame affect the reel in any way, or should I try to open the frame and remove it?  I am terrible at fixing reels, and I know that if I open the reel, I will break it.  I really don't want to break a trinidad.  Right now the opening is covered with a piece of duct tape, and the piece of plastic is still visible inside the frame.  Please advise.  Thanks!,

short answer, you should be fine.

it is possible that this small piece of plastic could get caught between the main and pinion gears, or underneath the yoke when the reel is out of gear.  those are the only two places that could cause trouble.  someday we should crack this reel open and changed out the drags and the dog, but it can wait for now.  alan

[alantani]

Alan, I'm struggling a little bit with this one. Got my FREE (given to me) Trinidad 30 down the bare bones for a complete cleaning. Lord knows it needed it. Now I'm stumped.  The drive shaft (#0930) has these three pieces on the end of it - #298(Drive shaft Washer B), #310(drive shaft Washer A), and #33(Drive Shaft Retainer). When all of these are assembled and the Drive shaft is set into the set plate (#307) there seems to be tons of play in the set plate hole that the drive shaft protrudes through. Am I missing something? The schematic shows a ball bearing (#485), but upon disassembly, there wasn't one??
Also, doesn't the end of my drive shaft look abused?  See pic #1. Maybe due to a lack of a ball bearing?  Finally ( I think), when putting the Drag Springs back in, are you putting them () or )(?  Your answers may explain why this reel was Free to me.

you're missing a bearing!  even when you get it together, you will still have some side to side play.  don't worry about it.  it's the up and down play that you need to watch.  extra washers help.  i've got a whole junk box full of them, but i know that does not help you.  call shimano and see about ordering up those parts.  when you get the new bearing, make sure you pack it with grease.  when the side plate is fully assembled, the side to side play is elimiated because the drive shaft is locked in by the anti-reverse roller bearing.  looks like you'll have to replace the drive shaft and everything.  alan

the springs go "()".  

[alantani]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FYI

Due to corrosion I was toying with a new Right Side plate for this
reel but was scared of the cost.

I called Shimano to order parts and asked about the upgrade kit #0933.
This includes new RS Plate #932, new drive shaft #930 and new #929
keyed washer all for FREE! NO CHARGE. I couldn't believe it.

So with a few additional parts ordered, bearing, various washers, etc
it should be back to better than new.

[alantani]

do you perhaps have the bearing sizes for the Shimano Trinidad 30 and Torium 30 reels... specifically, I'm looking for the size of the Drive shaft bushing #526 - I want to replace the bushings with bearings on my reels...

I've searched far and wide on the Net for these specs, to no avail!! It's crazy that the manufacturers cannot supply these on their websites!! Unless I'm being a dope and missing them somewhere. I want to do the same on my Saltists as well.

Might just have to invest in a Caliper that measures them myself, unless you can help!

finally got it!  it's a 5x9x3, a fairly common size.  alan

[rambozo]

On both my Trinidad and torium 30's when installing the carbontex drags due to the extra thickness the drag plate rubs on the inside of the right side housing. any ideas? I don't have this problem w/ my 16 or 20.

[alantani]

did you put a thicker aftermarket metal drag washer in it?  if so, go back to the original thinner one.  that should take care of the problem. 

[rambozo]

no i'm still using the original drag plate. I'll have to recheck it.

[alantani]

did you leave an extra washer in the stack?   

[franky]

Hello Alan,

I noticed that you changed the Roller Clutch Inner Tube that sits inside of the Roller Clutch Bearing.

Question:  When or what indications signals the need to change the Roller Clutch Inner Tube?  Do you change it whenever you change the Roller Clutch Bearing?  Or is it not necessary...If it is rusty, can it be just steelwooled and re-oiled?

[alantani]

hard to tell.  as a general rule, i change inner tubes and AR bearings out as a set.  same goes for main and pinion gears. 

[franky]

Oh okay....makes sense.

Thanks Alan.