Jigmaster 500 plastic spool question?

[WVHillbilly]

I picked up my first jigmaster 500 on ebay and fully expected it to need some love. To my surprise most all the internal had been upgraded to the stainless parts! Lucky me. Anyway its a pretty maroon and close to collectable quality. Very clean. i thought I had previously read here regarding the plastic spool and mono. spool is also maroon if that matters. should I spool some dacron on bottom before mono to protect the spool from breaking? i thought I had read here they were not design for mono at the time and could cause the ends of the spool to split or crack due to mono contraction? I am eyeballing a stainless and newell spool, but would like to use the plastic one. TY kindly

[jurelometer]

You got it the gist of it right, but the details are also interesting (at least to me )

The plastic spools cast better than the aluminum ones, which cast better than the plated brass ones.   I busted a few plastic spools jigmaster back in the day, but might prefer them now if loaded up with something less stretchy like spectra.

they were not design for mono at the time and could cause the ends of the spool to split or crack due to mono contraction

Mono expansion.  When the nylon gets stretched under load it gets longer, which means that the diameter decreases.  Once back on the spool and not under stretching load, it has plenty of memory to return (mostly) to the original dimensions.  Which means that the set of wraps across the spool push against each other, loading up the spool walls.  Layer after layer.

The load you need to avoid is toward the spool lip.  The lip has less support, and also acts as a lever against the arbor attach point.  You would have to put a lot of dacron in the spool to decrease the amount of nylon available to expand.  Also the thicker the nylon, the more load it can store and more it can expand, so 40lb test is more likely to crack the spool than 20.

It's the winding of nylon under load that gets you in the end. That is what pressurizes the line. So a bit of depends on how you fish.

I would load it up with modern braid (like spectra).  If you don't like casting braid, add just enough of a nylon mono topshot to reach your casting distance plus a bit to spare for trimming off. Maybe 80 lb spectra, or 30 lb dacron as the main fill.

-J

[WVHillbilly]

You got it the gist of it right, but the details are also interesting (at least to me )

The plastic spools cast better than the aluminum ones, which cast better than the plated brass ones.   I busted a few plastic spools jigmaster back in the day, but might prefer them now if loaded up with something less stretchy like spectra.

they were not design for mono at the time and could cause the ends of the spool to split or crack due to mono contraction

Mono expansion.  When the nylon gets stretched under load it gets longer, which means that the diameter decreases.  Once back on the spool and not under stretching load, it has plenty of memory to return (mostly) to the original dimensions.  Which means that the set of wraps across the spool push against each other, loading up the spool walls.  Layer after layer.

The load you need to avoid is toward the spool lip.  The lip has less support, and also acts as a lever against the arbor attach point.  You would have to put a lot of dacron in the spool to decrease the amount of nylon available to expand.  Also the thicker the nylon, the more load it can store and more it can expand, so 40lb test is more likely to crack the spool than 20.

It's the winding of nylon under load that gets you in the end. That is what pressurizes the line. So a bit of depends on how you fish.

I would load it up with modern braid (like spectra).  If you don't like casting braid, add just enough of a nylon mono topshot to reach your casting distance plus a bit to spare for trimming off. Maybe 80 lb spectra, or 30 lb dacron as the main fill.

-J

Thank you very much! I normally use braid, so I will go that route. 20lb mono was what I was considering, maybe 25 as I have a bunch of it. I searched for the info but kept coming up empty.

[thorhammer]

IMO and owning several dozen jiggys fished different ways, I go with the aluminum spools on anything I will cast. I've seen a plastic one or two burst with mono. Loaded the way Dave indicates makes sense, but in a practical application where is one casting a jiggy 500 with light weights where plastic is advantageous over aluminum? There's no cast control other than thumb, so I can't really see doing much more than a good lob anyway on a boat-length rod with free line bait.

My 0.02.

John

[jurelometer]

IMO and owning several dozen jiggys fished different ways, I go with the aluminum spools on anything I will cast. I've seen a plastic one or two burst with mono. Loaded the way Dave indicates makes sense, but in a practical application where is one casting a jiggy 500 with light weights where plastic is advantageous over aluminum? There's no cast control other than thumb, so I can't really see doing much more than a good lob anyway on a boat-length rod with free line bait.

My 0.02.

John

Always good to have more than one viewpoint.

Can't disagree too much.  I broke a plastic jiggy spool once when filling with fresh mono with too much tension.  Plastic was/is the least popular spool option.

So why plastic? The less weight, the less inertia. The less inertia, the less the spool will maintain RPMs as the payload slows - so less overrun to control on the cast.  True for any payload.  No experience with the Al spool plus  a cast control mechanism, but  plastic was the easiest for me on a jiggy with no cast control.

And these are really mono reels.  Just too big and too much braid capacity for the load that they can handle.  I guess that  I have more than one viewpoint on this myself

-J

[JasonGotaProblem]

Aluminum spool with a magnet is king.

(Both available upon request)

[oc1]

And these are really mono reels.  Just too big and too much braid capacity for the load that they can handle.  I guess that  I have more than one viewpoint on this myself

-J

Actually. Jigmasters came out in the age of "spuidding line", that is, braided nylon.  Reliable monofilament was still a few years away, 

Plastic spools are famous for breaking when monofilament is loaded too tightly.  The usual dogma is that tension adds stretch, the stretch causes compression and compression causes breakage.

However, braided nylon stretches as much as monofilament, if not more.  I don't remember ever seeing or hearing about squidding line cracking a spool.  Maybe braided nylon line compresses and relieves pressure on the spool.

[WVHillbilly]

Being completely honest. I primarily fish on my trips to the beach each year for a couple weeks. Surf casting 99% of the time. Maybe on a pier once or twice. I have sufficient reels to do what I do, but wanted to play with a jigmaster as I have never had one or even had one in my hands that I recall. I may just wind up some 25lb mono on her and give it a whirl. The likelihood  of me hooking into something large enough to cause issues is not all that high. If I come across a deal on a spool, I may pick it up. TY all for the responses. Vast knowledge here.

[thorhammer]

You can absolutely surf cast it. I'd suggest 11-12 rod if you have it, and don't load spool all the way up as it's easier to control. You'll still have plenty for drum, etc. Dave's idea makes good sense in that application: back with braid and a casting distance topshot of your 20 or 25 mono. I use 501 and 99 width on occasion and sling the snot out of 5-8 oz with them.

Dave is correct- they might hold 400 yds of 80lb braid, and that is well over the capability of the reel.

What beach?

[WVHillbilly]

Atlantic beach area of NC across from morehead city, nc. I have some old Dacron I could put on the spool prior to mono. I am not all that concerned about braking. While I will not be setting any records I can sling the crap outta a reel off the sand for a hilljack. Its more about playing with it than seriously seeking monsters of the deep. On most of my smaller reels I run braid with mono tops. The extra line has come in handy when I hook into something bigger like a ray. Had one couple years back that took me close to the full 300yds before I managed to turn it around. For such setups I generally use 10-12 foot rods.

[thorhammer]

That's my old stompin grounds, Hoss! Best of luck to ya'll; don't forget trip report!

[Bill B]

All good advice given above, I would suggest at least 1/4" of dacron on the bottom.

I do wonder if spooling straight braid, to the pressure needed to keep from digging in will implode the plastic spool.  I don't have a winding machine to do this.  If someone does I believe I have a plastic and 3 piece spool to donate to science.  Bill

[jurelometer]

And these are really mono reels.  Just too big and too much braid capacity for the load that they can handle.  I guess that  I have more than one viewpoint on this myself

-J

Actually. Jigmasters came out in the age of "spuidding line", that is, braided nylon.  Reliable monofilament was still a few years away, 

Plastic spools are famous for breaking when monofilament is loaded too tightly.  The usual dogma is that tension adds stretch, the stretch causes compression and compression causes breakage.

However, braided nylon stretches as much as monofilament, if not more.  I don't remember ever seeing or hearing about squidding line cracking a spool.  Maybe braided nylon line compresses and relieves pressure on the spool.

Good point about the line choice for the design - a 1958 product launch  means that the when the reel was designed, nylon mono was probably not the intended line.  I would have guessed the target to be Dacron (polyester) though. Either way, the reel load capacity and line capacity line up pretty nicely with 20 to 30 lb mono, and the aluminum spool released later dealt nicely with the mono compatibility  problem.

But on the cause of spool breakage with mono, I see it this way:

Compression is not the term that I would use.  You can  pack low-stretch line much tighter on a spool without it blowing out,  even though the compressive load is higher.

As noted before, when the tension is relieved after winding, the mono unstretches. Same volume, so the line becomes fatter as it gets shorter.  If you had 40 wraps across a spool, there now may only be room for 35.  Compressing the top of these wraps with additional layers does force the expansion more outward. But compression is not the primary driver here. You need something trying to expand underneath.

(The above  is also in response to Bill's question - straight spectra/dyneema braid does not have much elasticity - if you stretch beyond somewhere around 3.5 percent, it permanently elongates (deforms) - so less potential for stored energy. Plus the lower density from being a braid  - more on this below. An all braid load should be low risk.   This weakening by deformation is the seldom heard counter argument to packing braid super tight on spool fills.  More is not always better).

As to why vintage nylon braid might not have blown out spools.  Assuming that both nylon braid and mono had the same elasticity:

Nylon braid is not going to be very dense. Even under load there will be plenty of air between the fibers and weave. There is more room for the line wraps to expand internally, applying less load to the spool walls.

That's my old stompin grounds, Hoss! Best of luck to ya'll; don't forget trip report!

Looking forward to the trip report too!  Don't forget to tell us what you think about the plastic spool.  Sounds like you are pretty familiar with casting these classic conventionals.

-J

[MarkT]

At this point plastic spools must be 50+ years old? I wouldn't put much pressure on a plastic spool that old.