Daiwa Saltist 6500H : Service Tutorial, Upgrades and Maintenance Tips.

Started by johndtuttle, January 08, 2013, 02:06:05 AM

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johndtuttle

G'day Gents,

This offering from Daiwa has been the "go to" for those on a budget needing a high speed retrieve for Surf Fishing or targeting other species with surface lures that need a fast retrieve. The reels themselves were getting mixed reviews so I picked one up and decided to see for myself if this offering from Daiwa was a dog or a diamond in the rough :).

This post will address some of the upgrades that can make this reel a more than adequate performer as well as some of the pitfalls that can be avoided with some forewarning and preventative maintenance.

This is a link to the schematic we will be using:

http://daiwa.com/PartsDiagram/PartsDiagram/STT5000H-6500H.pdf

Here is the Saltist 6500H:





Pretty good looking reel and surprisingly light for it's size at ~24oz. Why the 6500H? The larger the spool the more line retrieved per crank and this reel is rated at 53" every turn of the handle. This is critical for Roosters in the surf or Tuna offshore and is a real effort saver over the day.

The first thing we are going to do is upgrade the drag washers. This will improve drag range, smoothness and longevity. This spool is one of the best parts of this reel and is interchangeable with a Saltiga.



We are gonna plug in some Carbontex washers, lightly greased with a Teflon drag grease as the Daiwa washers are known for being somewhat fragile. After this the drag will probably put out more than the rest of the reel is engineered to handle over time, but we will get a nice smooth range with the carbontex washers.



Then, as we want to remove the rotor we need to remove the Spool Metal (12) which is supported by a pin (54) and then fixed to the shaft by another Pin (11) which is retained by the "O" ring (77). I religiously re-grease these pins when replacing them as assemblies of this type are prone to getting stuck when exposed to salt. With protection they slide out easily after extended use with a light poke.





Shown as well above are the Click Leaf Spring Holder (9) and Spacing Washers (8) to adjust line lay. A nice light coat of grease to protect it all and we are done here.



Below that we find the Rotor Nut (13) held in place by a Screw (15) and Collar (14) with the second image below showing the proper orientation of the Collar when it comes time to put it back together.





With the rotor removed we come to the Roller Clutch Retainer (39) which comes off easily with 2 Screws (38)



Below that is the Clutch Cam Retainer which has to be oriented just right during re-assembly. Fortunately it only fights snugly and properly in the top of the Clutch in one orientation and you'll know as it makes it actually work as an antireverse bearing.



One of the knocks on the Saltist have been this Roller Clutch (42)  and a close look at the photo below shows one important issue. Virtually all reels in this class have direct exposure of the Clutch to Salt Water (even though it may seem hidden under the rotor) and the first effects of that exposure can be seen on the Clutch Cam (41) though fortunately the Spacing Sleeve (43) is not yet affected.



Below are some images that High Plains Drifter (HPD) previously posted. He experienced AR Failure probably from a combination of factors. One, he thought the springs might have been stressed from closing his bail early (the Saltist is manual bail trip only). Two, he was driving on rutted rods with heavy plugs bouncing in the racks  while being held tight from the AR. But Three, he also was getting significant corrosion which will affect function as well:





To rehabilitate yours if it shows corrosion it can be taken completely apart as above with the parts soaked in your choice of rust remover. As needed the leaf springs can be tweaked a bit to increase the force on the rollers (HPD had success with this).

The take home message being an ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure. AR bearings do not like heavy grease but a light coat of oil like Corrosion-X will protect them from saltwater, will minimally affect their holding power and increase the life of the part. What I am doing is lubing the shaft and inside of the sleeve with marine grease, the outside of the sleeve and the bearing rollers with Corrosion-X.

Below the Clutch is the pinion Bearing Retainer (45) held in place by 3 Screws (44). These were very tight so be careful not to strip them. After it is removed the pinion Bearing (46) and Pinion Gear (50) are easily removed as needed (not show) for service.



With the rotor off we can access all of the Screws (69) that hold the Body Cover (68) and we get a look inside. Be very careful with the screws as Daiwa used loctite on them and their heads are easily stripped. Use a good Allen Hex wrench and grease them when you replace them.



Finding a surprising large Drive Gear (65) to make the rotor move easily. The photo above shows the reel greased up and ready to fish. I consider this post more of a "fisherman's" quick and dirty guide and did not proceed further to remove the Drive Gear or fuss with the back up Anti-Reverse Pawl (62) etc. and added the shown grease to improve protection.

The Handle Assembly (70) below, gets grease on the shaft that goes through the Drive Gear and inside the shroud for protection as well as the Handle Screw (74), Collar (75) and Washer (73).



As well as plenty of grease to protect the exposed Ball Bearings (71 and 67).



The reel I picked up for this post had an after market knob whose articulating surfaces got Corrosion-X:



The other big knock on the Saltist has been the internal parts of the Line Roller (22) as the "Collars" (21) are nylon bushings that quickly seize possibly contributed to by the brass Collar (26) that can be seen to have corrosion on it in the image below. It is shown with the two after market Bearings (can easily be found on e-bay) that we are going to replace them with:



With the new assembly shown in the proper order below:



Which will greatly improve the function of the Line Roller if it is kept well oiled. That does not mean by any stretch that all your problems are solved with this assembly or any other spinning reel's line roller as this gets soaked with salt water with every outing. I liberally treat mine with grease during re-assembly, then Corrosion-X  pretty much every time out and keep some in my tackle box when I travel.

Lastly, some images below of the somewhat unique Bail Spring (31) and Rotor Brake Spring (35) and their positions. Once you take the covers off they like to jump out of their spots so I include this if you get in there and need a visual reference:





Anyways, I hope that is right! as it seems to work ;). Note the tiny bits of Salt in there getting ready to do their worst.

So, I am no expert analyst of Reel Engineering so I will keep the editorializing to a minimum. Hopefully HPD will chime in as I think he has the most time on the water with these reels and has found them to be quite serviceable, I believe. If you take the time to care for your reel and add a few of these after market goodies I hope you find it a viable option when you are fishing "Skip Jigs" like Cabo Killer's, Rangers and Poppers in the Surf where there really is no substitute for a fast retrieve. Certainly, the fine drag of this reel will handle pretty much anything hooked from shore.

best regards

nagz

Hi mate
I just started working on this reel in the 5000H version

I was wondering if you had a picture of the anti reverse spring configuration?

Cheers

johndtuttle

I'm afraid I don't. However if you look at this fine post by trishul there are pictures of it on a Saltiga. I believe that should help you.

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3431.0

best regards

nagz


overtime


alantani

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

milkman

Thanks for this John,
was wondering what the internal "cream coloured" grease you are using in there?

johndtuttle

Quote from: milkman on March 02, 2013, 02:38:27 AM
Thanks for this John,
was wondering what the internal "cream coloured" grease you are using in there?

It is a Teflon based marine bearing grease sold by Dupont. I chose it as I was looking for something lighter than standard marine grease because heavier ones can make spinning reels feel sluggish. It also should be safe to use on drag washers as it has a very high service temp and also extremely low washout (high water resistance).

It's an experiment that I am trying but only time will tell if it gets 'er dun...:D

best regards

milkman


webwalker

Quote from: johndtuttle on March 02, 2013, 02:53:20 AM
Quote from: milkman on March 02, 2013, 02:38:27 AM
Thanks for this John,
was wondering what the internal "cream coloured" grease you are using in there?

It is a Teflon based marine bearing grease sold by Dupont. I chose it as I was looking for something lighter than standard marine grease because heavier ones can make spinning reels feel sluggish. It also should be safe to use on drag washers as it has a very high service temp and also extremely low washout (high water resistance).

It's an experiment that I am trying but only time will tell if it gets 'er dun...:D

best regards

Hi John,
Thanks for this helpfully post. I'm starting to use the same dupont marine grease (I don't see the cup, but I think is the same), but I'm only using it on bail, boby, spool and exposed parts to water not for gears or cover the bearings. Fix so good and for a long time.
I saw your service about a Saltiga reel, and here is the question (hey, for everybody!).
For old Daiwa models (Catalina, Saltiga...) spools are interchangeable 4000-4500 or 5000-6000-6500. Also this Saltist 6500 fits into 5000-6500 Catalina-Saltiga series.
How can Daiwa justify such a difference in price between those model spools?, Ok, the metal Knob, alloy ... I can take a 6500 saltist spool under 50 bucks, and fists into my Catalina or Saltiga, the saltiga 6500 spool goes up to 8x price ...

Best regards

webwalker

This one on the right corner is the Dupont marine grade teflon grease...

regards

HughMura

John: I've owned a Saltist 6500H for 2 years. I use it for surf fishing at the Jersey Shore. I always wash it down with soap and water after each use, then spray it down with WD40. Last Sat, it seized on me. I came across your tutorial and wanted to thank you for the excellent pics and instructions. When I opened the gear box, I was shocked to see the corossion and gunk inside. Daiwa sure scrimped on the protective grease! Its working as good as new now. Thanks again!
Hugh

johndtuttle

Quote from: webwalker on September 16, 2013, 09:22:05 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 02, 2013, 02:53:20 AM
Quote from: milkman on March 02, 2013, 02:38:27 AM
Thanks for this John,
was wondering what the internal "cream coloured" grease you are using in there?

It is a Teflon based marine bearing grease sold by Dupont. I chose it as I was looking for something lighter than standard marine grease because heavier ones can make spinning reels feel sluggish. It also should be safe to use on drag washers as it has a very high service temp and also extremely low washout (high water resistance).

It's an experiment that I am trying but only time will tell if it gets 'er dun...:D

best regards

Hi John,
Thanks for this helpfully post. I'm starting to use the same dupont marine grease (I don't see the cup, but I think is the same), but I'm only using it on bail, boby, spool and exposed parts to water not for gears or cover the bearings. Fix so good and for a long time.
I saw your service about a Saltiga reel, and here is the question (hey, for everybody!).
For old Daiwa models (Catalina, Saltiga...) spools are interchangeable 4000-4500 or 5000-6000-6500. Also this Saltist 6500 fits into 5000-6500 Catalina-Saltiga series.
How can Daiwa justify such a difference in price between those model spools?, Ok, the metal Knob, alloy ... I can take a 6500 saltist spool under 50 bucks, and fists into my Catalina or Saltiga, the saltiga 6500 spool goes up to 8x price ...

Best regards


I cannot speak to every single detail on the spool's materials and design.

I do know however that the Saltiga spool is Made in Japan to very high standards. The Saltist spools are made elsewhere.

johndtuttle

Quote from: HughMura on June 03, 2014, 02:24:32 AM
John: I've owned a Saltist 6500H for 2 years. I use it for surf fishing at the Jersey Shore. I always wash it down with soap and water after each use, then spray it down with WD40. Last Sat, it seized on me. I came across your tutorial and wanted to thank you for the excellent pics and instructions. When I opened the gear box, I was shocked to see the corrosion and gunk inside. Daiwa sure scrimped on the protective grease! Its working as good as new now. Thanks again!
Hugh

Glad to help :). Now that you know how to service your reels you will learn how nice it is to always have them tuned up.

HughMura

Absolutely. I've owned a Penn 720 since 1969 and always took it apart to clean it. With the Saltier, I did wind up stripping the head on 1 of 3 screws you warned were tight. Any fix? I just retightened the other 2 and left it alone. It turns out the set of PH screwdrivers I was using were cheap, soft metal. Can you recommend a good set of tools for future repairs?
Thanks.