Upgrading a Surfmaster 100

Started by Alto Mare, February 08, 2013, 04:45:21 PM

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Three se7ens

Quote from: Vintage Offshore Tackle on May 13, 2015, 05:58:12 AM
Quote from: Three se7ens on May 13, 2015, 02:54:40 AM
thanks to you lot Im now wanting an ice blue tiburon frame...

Would a nice used Ice Blue Accurate frame with a Newell 100 spool for $95 plus $6 for shipping by Priority Mail work for you?


Thanks for the offer, but I need to hold off for a bit.

Rancanfish

I took on my little 100 today.  I added a stainless gearand greased the HT-100 drags as I found them dry. Added an Accuframe.  Then the thing proceeded to drive me absolutely wacko.

I looked down when I disassembled it and saw a narrow strip of copper laying on my paper towel.  So I looked at my book of Penn schematics and it shows a normal dog and spring. No help there.

I proceeded to try every different combo and couldn't make the dog engage. Finally after an hour it hit me....I have to bend it open more!  What a simple piece of....well, the 12 year old rule applies here.

I don't know if there is a later (or earlier) model that has a regular dog spring but boy I don't like that little strip of copper at all.

Then the Take apart screw just fell out when I wasn't paying attention.  That's a first.  I didn't find any kind of retainer like the Jigmaster has, but it finally grabbed hold of the spring and went back together. 

Then I had just ordered (4) more of the Black Pearl spacers, and they are too short, so the original went back in.  Boy I wish I hand more spare parts on hand.

At least the Giants swept the Dodgers!  ;D
I woke today and suddenly nothing happened.

foakes

Randy --

Some of the take apart screws (TA-200, I think) have a retainer -- some have a fluted diamond pattern sleeve that presses in place, into the side plate.

I probably have all of the spare parts you may need -- just let me know what might be useful -- and we would need exact measurements on possible spacers -- or figure on getting them a little long and sanding down.

Glad to help, if needed.

Those little 100s are a highly capable reel with the Accuframe and upgrades.

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

Rancanfish

#93
Good morning Fred.

I forgot I had just purchased some cheapie calipers.  I put the reel back together with the original spacer, back in the cabinet.

I had prior experience with Alan's original spacers and had always had to shorten them.  So I figured I would order four of the 10.5.  It actually measured 10.44  Keep in mind this caliper may not be too accurate.

It dropped in down below the lip of the sideplate, so it would not work.  

I should have ordered a variety of sizes. I also considered adding another washer to the drag stack but couldn't find anything.

I'm going to order more after I measure the spacers in the reels I'm looking at improving.
I woke today and suddenly nothing happened.

Rancanfish

Hey Fred,

A) Revisiting this, I discovered a severely worn dog (15-200) and dog ratchet gear. I have never seen that in any other reel I've had apart. The brass ratchet looks mashed on the edges.  The dog itself is worn on what would be the contact point, but on the top edge too.

B) And I now can't find the take apart screw, which is driving me screwy too.  It is different from the squidder take apart, as the SM hole in the ring/sideplate is smaller and seems to have a brass sleeve liner of sorts.

C) Also, I found an incorrect upper bridge screw on my 140 converted to narrow. The screw that the dog rides on has threads. Am I right, that is wrong?

D) Also, I need a used 100L spool for a user reel.  A used stainless eccentric would be icing on the cake.

Let me know if you can help on a multi-reel pile up I have going. 

I worked 10-1/2 hrs. yesterday and I'm doing reels to unwind.  Thanks Fred!
I woke today and suddenly nothing happened.

foakes

Sorry, Randy --

To respond so late -- just got back in after a very full day that started early this morning.

Have a full day tomorrow also with items unrelated to reels.

So likely will not have time to check things out availability-wise -- until late tomorrow, or more likely Monday.

Should have the dog, spring, and take apart screw.

Assuming you mean the gear sleeve when you refer to the brass ratchet?

I will check on the eccentric, think the screw may be correct, but will verify.

Do not have an aluminum spool for that reel.

If you could post pics -- that would be very helpful.

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

Rancanfish

#96
EDIT:  Ordered all the parts.

No worries Fred.  I am in no hurry.  I have about 4 different reels all apart waiting on different items.

I was up late working on an old graphite Shimano Bantam Mag Plus I had ebay'd years ago as a second.  I had never pulled it apart and I think it was one a fisherman snagged while trolling the bottom.  Literally some kind of crusty deposits on and in everything.  Simple green and Dawn dish soap literally had no effect after a four hour soak. I ended up scraping with popsicle sticks.  It would chip off like barnacle bits!  

I should have waited until I was all done, because I stupidly ebay'd a new old stock sideplate for it. The reel will not work properly anyway. I'm not too smart when I'm tired and sleepy.

I am sticking to the big three, Penn, Daiwa, and Dam Quick.  ;D
I woke today and suddenly nothing happened.

kmstorm64

Great job Sal, I work up my Surfmaster's kayak style, with Newel base and posts.  Tibaron parts are nice, but the newel is  components keep it lighter, and are more resistant for the harshness of the kayak world.
Bad day of fishing still beats a good day at work!

kmstorm64

Quote from: Alto Mare on February 09, 2013, 04:40:25 PM
Quote from: Irish Jigger on February 09, 2013, 04:08:54 PM
Nice work as usual Sal. Did you have to trim the spacing sleeve to accommodate the 1/2 mm thicker  10-66 star? BTW the 10-505 fine thread star is the same thickness as the 10-60 and would go well with a fine threaded sleeve on this reel.

Get yourself a Quick-Wedge screwdriver,one of the most useful tools in my toolbox.Ref attached link.

http://www.newmantools.com/kedman.htm

Thanks Tom. No, didn't need to do any trimming to the spacer. I do hit the sleeve on the grinder, when i need to. Drag setting on all of my reels start soft, just the way I like them.
Thanks for the tip on the screwdriver, one of my brothers is an electrician and I remember him using one of those, but never gave it a thought.
Yes I know about the 505 and already have one set up that way, i prefer coars threads on mine though.
The ss screws is a very good upgrade on these. You know, this guy from Northern Ireland had to show me where to get those in my neck of the woods ;D
Thanks again Tom, I will order that screwdriver ;)


Am I reading this right?  You can replace the gear sleeve 98-155 with a 98-505 or 98-505AT?  Please enlighten us unworthy ones.
Bad day of fishing still beats a good day at work!

Alto Mare

#99
Quote from: kmstorm64 on September 10, 2015, 09:17:12 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on February 09, 2013, 04:40:25 PM
Quote from: Irish Jigger on February 09, 2013, 04:08:54 PM
Nice work as usual Sal. Did you have to trim the spacing sleeve to accommodate the 1/2 mm thicker  10-66 star? BTW the 10-505 fine thread star is the same thickness as the 10-60 and would go well with a fine threaded sleeve on this reel.

Get yourself a Quick-Wedge screwdriver,one of the most useful tools in my toolbox.Ref attached link.

http://www.newmantools.com/kedman.htm

Thanks Tom. No, didn't need to do any trimming to the spacer. I do hit the sleeve on the grinder, when i need to. Drag setting on all of my reels start soft, just the way I like them.
Thanks for the tip on the screwdriver, one of my brothers is an electrician and I remember him using one of those, but never gave it a thought.
Yes I know about the 505 and already have one set up that way, i prefer coars threads on mine though.
The ss screws is a very good upgrade on these. You know, this guy from Northern Ireland had to show me where to get those in my neck of the woods ;D
Thanks again Tom, I will order that screwdriver ;)


Am I reading this right?  You can replace the gear sleeve 98-155 with a 98-505 or 98-505AT?  Please enlighten us unworthy ones.
No, the 98-505 will not work on the 3-200 bridge. Well, let me rephrase, you could make it work, but you will need to remove about 1/16th off the edge of the ratchet. I did mine on the belt sander and only took a couple of minutes, one of my Surfmaster still has the 98-505 AT sleeve.
If you try it, all will work as it should, the only issue you will have is with the inner side of the spool lip. If I remember correctly, you do get away with the old metal spool, but not 100% on it.
Since we have both though, I would advice you to let it go and use the correct sleeve, I like to experiment.

On another note, if you needed the Jigmaster to go fish and only had the 98-155AT to upgrade, you could use it and it will perform just fine, I've done it a couple of times.
Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

MikeS51

I'm working on putting a tib frame on my 100 tonight and I stripped one of those awful slotted screws. What a headache. I just wanted to put on a shiny tib frame ughhhhhh

Rancanfish

Funny you say that Mike.  I was installing two Tiburon frames on 150's and really had to force the screws in.  Actually turned it in and then back off, and then force it a bit more.  Using the screw to rethread it.

I upsized my screw driver to be able to put extra grunt.

I thought I had a bad couple of screws at first.  I could see nice anodized color in a few of the holes that threaded in easy.  The ones that were tough had a whitish color.  Maybe some dried goop from the machining process?  Just speculating.

Then a brand new old stock sideplate I had purchased a while back turned out to have no post for the dog spring.  Aarrrgh.

Ain't this fun?   ;D
I woke today and suddenly nothing happened.

Tightlines667

Hopefully you can get it removed without too much difficulty.  In the future, if a screw starts to get a bit tight, you may want to back it out and run a tap through to clean up/deburr the threads first.  I know hindsight is 20/20 and all. 
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

MikeS51

Those screws strip way too easily. I have another 100 to cannibalize but I'm worried i'll end up stripping those too. Plus I would like to get my newell bar off there.

Back at it after work tonight lol

DaBigOno

Mike,

Check to see if your screwdriver is a good fit.  If not, invest in a hollow ground.  Also might be a good idea to pre-soak all those screws with some type of penetrating oil overnight.  Take your time on it.

Post some pics so we can help ...

Looking forward to your build  ;)
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